Manly Steelhead - any downside??

Vetterone,I owe it to you to keep this brief,yet,hopefully interesting.
My friend and myself have spent a good part of winter 2004/5 trying out the vast majority of phono tubes.This actually ended in June 2006.We tried the Amperex 6922 White labels PQ- which were fabulous.We tried Ediswan 6922 and 7308,also fabulous.All tubes were tested as ULTRA low noise.

We did try Teles,mega bucks,BTW--and were not real happy with these.A bit too lean for our taste.Also tried was Amperex 7308,very nice.A bit soft.In all honesty,and in similarity to your own findings,we got our hands on some KILLER low noise Siemens CCa's,which cost dearly,and these were definitely the best we've had in our phono sections.These tubes,to us,were so good that we may end our quest here,though I may still spring for a set of "Pinched Waisted Amperex".I don't think I can hold out, without at least trying these.ALL tubes had really distinctively different sounding signatures,as you must know.This is really a great way to voice a system to a specific taste,though many manufacturers won't let on to how effective NOS tubes can really be.

BTW-the guy "SAM" who sells on Audiogon,is very reliable,and seemingly honest.

Best regards!

thanks Tim, I have seen that web site, but $325 is a lot to pay for a set of tubes!.

Vetterone indicated he bought his amperex 6922 tubes for $40 bucks.

that is where I would like to shop if he will give up his source:)

Hey guys, after living with the steelhead for a week I decided not to pull the trigger. For me and my tastes it was SOTA in bass, upper bass/lower mid texture, quieter than the Pass Xono, but ultimately I did not get into its slightly forward matter of fact upper mids and treble. It was crystal clean, but did not have enough meat on the bone for me and was ultimately fatiguing.
I did change the sovtec 6922's to JJ/tesla and that was better, but overall I didn;t want to listen to it enough to justify the steep price of admission.

guess this is why there are sooo many hi fi brands out there - everyone has different tastes and bias's.

Looks like I need a slightly warmer phono stage -

any idea's guys?

Yikes - I was hoping that fishy would work for you. Warmer... hmmm ... there's the Lamm LP2, and, if you can do balanced, the Bat vk10SE. I'd really like to give the Lamm a try myself.

I keep hoping CJ will do a new phono stage w/ their teflon caps, but not sure they see the market for such. Btw, didja ever get an ACT2 in house?

I have owned an Art Audio Vinyl 1 phonostage and currently have a Thor. Both tube. The Vinyl 1 is terrific for any price and it goes for about 2.3k. It is quite warm and welcoming without losing detail. The soundstage is particularly deep. It is amazingly quiet. Really quiet. I would look into it.

The Thor is an improvement in all respects but quite a bit more $. More than the Steelhead. I'm a big fan of Thor.

Lamm LP2, if you don't have a really low-output cartridge (it only has 57db of gain), might be more along those lines, or sell the phono and line stage and get a Jadis JP80MC, put some nice NOS Amperex BBs or Telefunken Ccas in the phono section and prepare to be seduced by the sound. Quite frankly, though, the Pass is a good unit, it is not easy to beat.

Downunder, there is no piece of gear that is right for everyone. I applaud you for giving the Steelhead a good audition and reaching a well reasoned conclussion. Too bad more people don't function the same way.

Richard - I agree, Thor makes good stuff. I haven't heard the phonostage. Would you mind offering your experience with it? TIA

thanks Nrchy, my choice of lack of does not invalidate the choice and joy the steelhead is bringing to many other music lovers.
Yes, the trials and tribulations of the hi fi hobby. In the last 12 mnths gone from worn out xv-1 to dyna xv-1s and biggest change of all is going from big cj tube mono's to cj SS prem350.
All those changes have changed the systems tonal qualities slightly,tighter better controlled bass, however the SS amp does not have quite the treble delicacy that the old prem8a's had.( no such thing as a free lunch) It is still SOTA SS sound, but does not sound like tube treble. If I still had the prem8's I would have like the steelhead more.

Interestly I just borrowed an ARC SP-8 from a mate and using his phono section, and it sounds great. makes me wonder how much hi fi has improved in the last 20 years. Even the P-75 I am using sounds close enuf to the Pass Xono and steelhead, that unless you have the money it does seem hard to justify the expense.

I am going to listen to a sutherland and ARC PH-5 in the next couple of weeks - both are supposed to be very musical - so we will see what happens. I can if needed go back to the XONO, but I think I am looking for a little more sofistication.

Tim, I did have the ACT 2 in the system for about a month. Sounds fantastic. compared to the VTL 7.5 it just sounds different. the cj is a little more forward and direct, the bass is a little more obvious, however the VTL just sounds a bit more luxurious. the cj maybe sounds a little coarser in the upper mids, however on the other hand the VTL could be seen as a little less direct. the VTL has better ergonomics no doubt.
BTW, I am thinking about cj phono with SUT like the inbuilt jensen's or Bent audio Mu as well, but the controversy of SUT or no SUT is amazing.

At the time I was looking at changing due to a noise/gain issue between the high gain VTL and high gain cj. Now I have found fantastic attenuators from Endler, that has solved any issues I had with the 7.5.
Tim, I could quite easily live with both - both sound fantastic but different.

cheers Shane

Richardmr, jikes the thor is expensive! n$US8490. that is a lot of aussie $.
Looks beautiful thou.
Gain information is conmflicting. specs say 55db MC which would not be enuf to drive my .3 xv-1s, but the printer friendly page has 78db. Big difference!

Jtimothya - I actually own the Thor linestage with phono MKII version, which is the newest. Through circumstance, I was able to get it at quite a reduced cost compared to retail. I believe retail is 13k. I did not have the opportunity to demo many products so I had to go on homework and faith. My personality is to always seek out the more obscure, and less written about, products. I like and pull for the little guys, as my entire system attests.

Sorry to include so many buzzwords but the Thor has terrific inner detail and a very wide soundstage. It, combined with the rest of my gear, is very non-fatigueing. Warm, with solid-state detail is how I would put it. It is locked in at 70db which gives off a small amount of tube rush but I attribute that to my 100db speakers. There is a lifetime guaranty aside from tubes and I don't plan to ever change it out. It's ROCK solid. Tapping on the top of the unit is like tapping on top of a 100 pound block of granite.

Downunder - As I mentioned above, the Thor is set at 70db with an added 8db of gain from the linestage section. The owner, Paul Marks, who is a great guy, says the stand-alone phonostage tops the linestage I own. Wow!

Greetings everyone, have not seen this thread for awhile. Looks like things have mellowed somewhat...

Sirspeedy, your findings mirror mine exactly with the phono tubes. While I still have not tried the Tele CCa's, the E88CC Teles were very detailed but on the clinical side. The white label Amperex 6922 PQ's are a the best value and would make a good reference set of phono tubes. They work equally well in my Supratek Grange. Whomever is buying Siemens CCa's, be careful. More than one set of faked sets have been sold to unsuspecting audiophiles for big money. When in that price league, talk to Andy or Brendan. Speedy...what 7044 style tube did you wind up with?

Shane, sorry to hear that the Steelhead did not pan out for you in your system. Good luck in your search.

Hi,
any more inputs to Steelhead??
I am using a XV-1s on a Kuzma Stabi Ref. with Mission Mechanic or Stogi Ref. tonearms, and an old but nice Audio Research SP 10, that is bloomy, smooth, liquid, but not with the ultimate resolution, speed and dynamics.
I am very interested in a Steelhead. Alternative way would be just a little DV P75 MkII or Whest PS 20 with a nice line stage, but the steelhead is more my favorite.
Thanks
Balazs

Holy thread revival- Batman!

I just got a new Tron Seven phono stage after talking with at least one other Tron owner who had a Steelhead, but then Auditioned the Tron Seven, and sold the STeelhead. He thought the Tron was far superior.

However it doesn't have any adjustability like the STeelhead (nor can it be used as a linestage or direct to amps. You choose the gain 60, or 70db and loading when ordering.

it's $4000 US.

Just found this thread. Have had my Steelhead since '07. But just hearing how great it really is! Always had to run it through My Spectral preamp to drive Spectral amps. Am now letting go of Spectral. Using Steelhead to drive a pair of Forte' model 7 monos. WOW! Not enough power to drive my Avalons; Hope to try a pair of Pass 160.8s soon. There is a lot of tube info in this thread that I will try to sort through but I would appreciate if someone would spell out the tubes to really get and phone# to source them? Thanks

Thanks to Nkonor for reviving this thread.  I bought a Steelhead just a few months ago, and so far I quite like it. My gripes would be as follows:
(1) Input resistance choices for MM.  The MM input offers 47K ohms and then a series of very much lower resistances that are totally irrelevant for MM cartridges.  I do realize that the optional low (under 1000R) input resistances are actually for using MC cartridges through the MM inputs, if one wants to bypass the built-in autoformers that are in the circuit path if you use the MC inputs, but still...  
(2) I was rather surprised to read that nkonor prefers using the Steelhead as a full preamplifier rather than feeding its output to his Spectral preamplifier, since most others have reported that it sounds best as a phono stage.  I too am using mine as a full function preamplifier, and I agree with others that it is not at all lean in sound quality.  In that regard, the topology of the White Cathode Follower output circuit uses a lot of capacitance (30uF) and a low value shunt resistor (10K).  This is to ameliorate problems related to using high capacitance interconnects.  However, I cannot believe it would not sound better with a lower value capacitance (e.g., 3 or 4uF) and a larger shunt resistor (100K ohms).  The latter combo of C and R would result in the exact same bass cut-off, and I am going to try it.  Lower coupling C should sound better. Maybe this is why others report that the Steelhead sounds best as a phono stage, because if you take the output ahead of the "line stage" section, you avoid this possibly suboptimal output circuit.  (I do understand why Manley may have chosen the values for R and C; you never know what folks might use as cables and what downstream equipment they might expect the Steelhead to drive.)  There's more to this stuff than rolling tubes.

Hi Lewm, can you give a brief comparison between the Steelhead and the phono sections of your Atma-sphere MP1 and the Aesthetix Janus?

 

I am using the Aesthetix IO and thinking of getting an additional phonostage / preamp, the Steelhead and MP1 are on my short list.

 

Thanks!

6 moons review online comparing Steelhead with Tom Evans Audio Design Groove+ makes an interesting read. The jist of it that the TEAD blows the SH away.

The Kong, Before having done any modifications or tube rolling with the Steelhead, I would rank those 3 as follows: MP1>Steelhead>Janus.  This is my Janus with upgraded coupling capacitors (using V Caps and polystyrene film and foil output capacitors on both the line and phono stages).  The stock capacitors in the standard non-Signature Janus really drag down its potential, IMO.  My MP1 is not stock, either.  My only problem with it is that one of the modifications I performed was to replace the bottom tube(s) in the phono input dual-differential cascode with a bipolar transistor, as used by Allen Wright in his RTP3C.  This gives the phono stage so much gain that it is unusable with all except very LOMC cartridges.  Not a bad problem to have, but I cannot run it with MM cartridges.  The Steelhead sounds very good with MMs in my basement system, as is.

Noromance, 6 Moons reviews are among the most unbelievable reviews to be found on-line, IMO, but I will take a look.  There are several other reviews or posts on Audiogon claiming that this or that phono stage is also superior to the Steelhead; I don't let stuff like that faze me. The TEAD is solid state, is it not?  I am still waiting to fall in love with any solid state phono stage.  Many are "very good", to my ears, but all so far fail to reach that juicy musical Nirvana I perpetually seek.  

I happen to have a stash of 6900s, but I use them in my amplifiers, two per chassis, and I am loathe to further diminish my supply.  However, in the past I had come to believe that 5687s (the parent of the 6900) can sound just as good in audio applications.  The 6900s are needed if you're building a guided missile, in 1965.

Lewm, thank you for the reply!  Purely based on reading of reviews and posts, my speculation actually matches your ranking of the 3 units.

 

It is just too bad that Atma-sphere doesn't have any agent in Hong Kong, I would love to have an audition!

I have paired my Manley Steelhead driving a pair of Pass 160.8s to my Avalons. After (1) week; my impressions are: Great pairing! Well balanced top to bottom, midrange to die for, superb imaging, DEAD QUIET!!!!  Bass control is the best and feel no need for a subwoofer. My room is pressurized at low, med, HIGH volumes. Missing that last bit of palpable imaging and air that tube amps could bring but will keep Dead Quiet and bass control !! Will be ordering some Siemens, Amperex, Tung Sol to do my (1st) tube rolling. I do not miss the Hyper Detail of my Spectral system. All the details are still there; Just more natural. No Fatigue!! Best equipment change that I have made in years. Even 26yr old JVC, CD player sounds great through the (1) line input - Only if I leave it on 24/7. Works for me though. Any Steelhead owners that have rolled tubes ; I am open and would appreciate all advice. Thanks