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Looking for advice - Debugging an unexpected music shut down

Hi all, I am looking for some advice and troubleshooting on a problem that I encountered with my system at our New Years Party.   Any thoughts are welcome!

The Situation:

So we had a great New Years party - lots of people and dancing.  Sound level was pretty loud, and I would occasionally hear a short drop out ( maybe a second or two) - not ideal but not a party killer.  Then late at night everything stopped  - mid song.  I was streaming from a Roon playlist and could not get it going again!  I waited about 15 min and then tried to replay - voila - we have music again.  So the issue I have is why the small drop outs and why the big one?

Equipment/ Room
My room is large - 20x25 feet with 14 foot ceilings.  Sound levels were high (didn't measure but think club level).
Speakers are 88 db efficient and driven by a 100wpc Yamaha AS-801 integrated.  Streaming from Roon via Airplay to a Cambridge CXNv2 dac. Roon Core is on a Synology NAS.  Content was all 16/44 AIFF files with some Tidal Hi Res and a smattering of MQA files.  I stream over 5ghz wifi with an endpoint as I can't run ethernet to the main room.

Potential Issues - my thoughts.
1.  Wifi issue.  Possible but I don't normally have drop outs when streaming (all my music is streamed over WIFI either from Tidal or local files).  Only 2 phones on my 5ghz networks so it shouldn't be congested.
2.  Airplay issues.  Again I don't normally have issues but this or above could explain some of the short drop outs?
3.  Roon Core not keeping up.  I don't have a super high end Nas (Celeron processor) but I was only doing volume normalization and no fancy dsp functions.  
4.  Roon app on iPhone issues.  Maybe the app bugged out and stopped working?  It never crashed but you never know.
5.  Amp overheated / clipping.   This could be the culprit. With 100 watts and the room size  and sound levelI suspect I was maxing out the amp.  I did feel the top of it and it was quite warm (not scorching but way hotter than I had felt it before).  I could see this explaining the long shut down time, and the fact that after letting things be for 15 min I could resume the playlist.

Would love to resolve this - nothing says get out of my house like stopping the music - and that certainly wasn't the intent!

All thoughts are welcome.

G
biggund
12 responses Add your response
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
It got hot enough to trigger thermal shutdown. Then it cooled down enough to play again.

This happened at a party one time. The host was freaked. I said no worries, take it outside, January, cool it down in no time. Which it did. Back inside, this time with a little more space around it, and a lilt less volume through it, no more problems. 

The only question I have is why its #5 on your list when it should be #1?

erik_squires
15,657 posts
 
Sounds like a Wifi issue.

What you are missing is how many OTHER people near you have Wifi, which can cause channel congestion.

Get a wifi analyzer for your phone or laptop (free), and make sure your router is using an uncontested channel.


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Lol! Same guy tells me spend thousands on a $2 fix now can’t understand amps shut down when they get too hot!

Maybe he’ll be kind enough to explain why the WiFi came back the minute the amp cooled down. Get your popcorn folks oughta be good!
erik_squires
15,657 posts
 
Hey @millercarbon ,

Here's a doll, show us where it hurts.

You are among friends.
Post removed 
lak's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
lak
4,529 posts
 
Boys! Let it go...It's all good.
biggund OP
2 posts
 
Thanks for the info - I suspected that it was a thermal issue.  I did put the list in no particular order- just trying to identify possible causes.

I will also ensure that the wifi is on a free channel - never a bad idea as I live in a loft with lots of other competing wifi networks.

One question though - would the small "pauses" or stutters be caused by the amp starting to get too hot as well?  I can see the complete shutdown but would it clip a bit as it gets too hot that would manifest like a short dropout?

G
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,404 posts
 
The neighbors released an EM pulse?
dweller's avatar
dweller
3,735 posts
 
So many people using Roon they ran out of bandwith? Couldn’t send you the bit stream? These data transfer systems have limits (cell phones, internet, etc.). There is such a thing as too many people using the service (try making an interstate cell phone call on Mother's day).
erik_squires
15,657 posts
 
One question though - would the small "pauses" or stutters be caused by the amp starting to get too hot as well? I can see the complete shutdown but would it clip a bit as it gets too hot that would manifest like a short dropout?


This is exactly what I hear when the Wifi is wonky. However, diagnosis rarely happens without effort. To deduce you must remove. That is, check your wifi channel congestion and strength first. At least you can find free apps for this. Once you are comfortable with that then if it still occurs it will be worth looking at other options.

I lived in a 20 story, dense apartment in San Francisco and video streaming was nearly impossible unless you had routers with magic channels. :) Everyone else I suggested they wire their TV’s and Roku devices.

erik_squires
15,657 posts
 
It may help everyone to know that there are only about a dozen channels in 2.4 and about the same number on 5 GHz available.

Regardless of the application, or service, every wifi router has to pick a channel, and is competing for time on that channel with any other router on that channel.  If you live on a home with a yard, you probably never feel this congestion. I live in a modest apartment complex, and in 2.4 GHz I see about 24 routers on 2.4 GHz. The two most congested channels have 6 and 10 competing signals. Also these signals overlap, so channel 5 actually takes up 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

The story is better on 5 GHz, for sure. The story is made even worse by services like Xfinity’s public wifi service, which is enabled by default. Those routers take 2 channels / router. Shame I can’t post images on this board, because you’d see the problem immediately. Lastly, many routers have a really horrible habit of using either the first, or last channel when set to "auto." So that means you see them all bunch up.

Again, I’m not selling anything. Wifi analyzers on Mac, PC and Android are all free. If you are curious, go look.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,588 posts
 
Thermal issue 100 percent 

I. Loud 
2. Long duration
3. Amp being hotter then normal
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