Mountain, are you affiliated somehow with dc10audio?
I've read several from the media were thrilled with various things there! You're limited posting history on agon, focus on touting one brand and the focus on one gentleman's opinion of the product makes this post suspect!
Disclosure please! That will help achieve a more productive discussion.
I usually don't pounce on these posts as I was wrongly accused of having an interest in a product once, and it was really obnoxious, but your only three posts here are pimping this company (awkwardly I might add...)
Something doesn't smell right.
Not accusing. Just asking because its the only way to find that out when not sure on Agon.
Its OK to tout a product, as long as one is forthcoming. Part of being forthcoming is identifying any association one might have with those who profit if such an association exists. Its an old and well discussed topic pertaining to this sight.
Your only feedback is from selling a DC10Audio speaker. So it appears that you are either DC10Audio or one of their dealers.
If you are, as it appears, it's natural to believe in the product that you're making or selling. You just need to tell us that so that we're aware of it and the possibility that your view might be a little biased.
I think I was in this room. Only had analogue TT as source. I thought the sound of the system was too bright. Not my type of sound.
First of all I am not a dealer and purchased my speakers when dc10 was manufactured in Carrboro North Carolina before their current location I know the guys and they sell me some demo items and B stock when available.
Is Steroephile trying to pump this brand up several writers really liked the room. Is the owner of Vapor trying to bash dc10audioit? who knows who actually cares?. Second, being that at RMAF one is exposed to different music genres all the time it's quite difficult: for example if old music is played with a clipped signal it sounds bright and bad it's not the speakers fault as speakers are fairly innocent and do as they are told sometimes from what i heard the room was trying to demo that you can have pretty big music with only 2 watts..I would have chosen a 60+ watt push pull or 20 watts of SET power for demos and not played certain poor recordings at RMAF. Lastly; I've been defensive because someone from Vapor? alias? decided to Bash dc10 my favorite speakers ever! Were they were on the same floor as dc10 and had a boner for each other?? My friend attended said that they played Leonard Cohen and it was transcendental experience best vocals he had ever heard..period. he also said they played the pink Panther in mono too loud and it sucked.....grow up boys!
The Berlin room was really bright at RMAF. At my age when say bright, it is really bright.
Do the dc10s look better in person then pictures? Those traditional/horn hybrid enclosures look terrible in pics.
It looks like some of the pictures are of prototypes like the Berlin SM which they've changed a couple of times. They are quite nice looking in person.
Mountain-high. You said:
"First of all I am not a dealer and purchased my speakers when dc10 was manufactured in Carrboro North Carolina before their current location I know the guys and they sell me some demo items and B stock when available."
What do you do with the B-stock and demo items you purchase from dc-10?
There are many factors why a speaker sounds the way it does at that particular moment, especially at these shows. Finding a tonal balance that does it, is a personal preference. Best sound at RMAF? No such thing! I'm glad the Kondo guy liked the speakers, so he should buy them.
I went to RMAF to listen to the Rethm Maarga, as my price point is up to ($12K). My favorite speaker before walking in was the Horning Aristoteles. After listening to the Horning's at the show I still enjoyed them, so my basis. The Maarga's were ultra relaxed to my ears with an incredible depth of soundstage. The speakers were far away from the back wall, so that made sense. However, as I thought they sounded beautiful, not my cup of tea (tonal balance).
The Berlins did it for me tonally (Sunday), so they struck the balance that pleases my brain. This must include the source components and the recording(s). What's really important to me, is that dc10audio has a dealer in Denver as well as other locations. This allows for confirmation of sound. I can use my amp! Most other contenders require that I hit the road, but that may not be practical or possible for me.
What is the Best?? Very hard to quantify. If we approach loudspeakers like art it will be the ability for the loudspeaker to surpass it's construction and the sum of its parts in its ability to correctly reproduce music.
To compare the construction a new pair of Magico speakers to the Berlin is foolish as they are totally different one is mostly wood one is mostly aluminum or posting that one loudspeaker kills another is foolish considering all the variables: lets remember that there are 7 Billion pairs of ears (true some can deceiver music better than others) millions of recordings and a hundred million different component combinations possible so again it is subjective.
If you want a wooden horn and with high efficiency the Berlin might just be the best choice. If want truly heroic construction with heroic sound Magico might be the way to go two choices out of a thousand.
Lastly, someone (carl) keeps emailing us asking to do a face-off with other brands.... We'll participate if asked to but after the review what do you do?
Art is not fixed and should have no ending but keep transcending.
No; the big Ventures were the best sounding rig overall.
Yea, the Venture room was in my top five. But there was a f**k wad that took the sweet spot for hours without considerations for others who wanted to listen. Some of you may remember him because all he did was crank up electronic house music to ear bleeding levels.
A new pr of Berlin IIs sold for 790.00 on Ebay is that a good price?Another sold
for something like 910.00
yeah with 1200 watts they really sing just like pro audio.
I Got one pair of them!
They sold some B stock in the Mini Berlin 3 or 4 pairs I think the highest ebay sale was $2600.00 They also recently sold a demo pair of minis for 1250? The mini is a great little speaker not as cool as the bigger one but less $$$
Yes, we were honored to have the Gentleman from Kondo spend quite a long time with us at RMAF he was interested in our tektron amplifier and Berlin loudspeakers.
I must admit I was a little embarrassed though as I felt like our amp a 3950.00 tektron tube integrated was underpowered for the show the tektron 22 watt integrated we brought was out of commission. I felt that some of the music we played was not appropriate for an audiophiles ears I could tell by the snarls I saw not to mention our speakers were fresh off the shelf and had almost zero hours on them.
If there was someone I wanted to impress at RMAF it was this man or Peter from the UK as I still think their products are sublime.
We'll be ready for Newport!
I agree with you! At times our system was way too bright and sharp as my partner pushed the tektron amp well beyond it's limit most especially with jazz brass it was killing me and others. We did a nice job with vocals as the sound was the correct tone and timbre. Acoustic strings were very good and once in a while the bass was very nice. The Berlin is capable of exciting round bass with a bigger amplifier and better brass when the loudspeaker is fully broken in.
Quad-man, thanks for your honesty. I know it is extremely difficult to set up a system in an unfamiliar compromised hotel room with limited amounted of time. I try not to draw firm conclusions based on show sound. Kudos to everyone who show up every year to show their wares.
I did speak to Hiroshi from Kondo at RMAF What he said to me is that he was impressed with the volume of music achieved with the small tube amplifier and was amazed at the Tektrons ability to play 5 different kinds of tubes!
After a bit of listening He asked about the loudspeakers and was perplexed by the Berlin's horn and asked if it was a compression unit we told him no but that it was both the tweeter and the bass reflex port for the speaker at the same time he said WOW! very, very, interesting.. it's like unique point source we also explained that inside the bent ply cabinet was a wooden resonator made of a special tone-wood it was here we seemed to lose him so he sat back down and took some more notes..What this means? I don't know but it was a fun interchange as I got to use my very limited Japanese language repertoire.
He spoke to some other people in our room about the sound quality while playing Diana Krall and it seemed to have gotten his attention. ?? If you were their what did he say to you??
website now shows Berlin R reference? for even more $$$ any B stock guys???
I see you now have two pairs of dc10audio speakers for sale here on audiogon... Methinks some disclosure is in order...
He also has feedback from the sale of a pair of Berlins. Yet on 10-19-12 he stated he was not a dealer. HMMMM.
Read the thread..I sell stuff for dc10 mostly 'B' stock as well as 100's of amp on agon and ebay How bout your disclosure vapor1 alias?
me thinks you needs disclosure as I already have disclosed if you read.
read the thread ..I sell stuff I do not have a store!
Carl?, we do not have any B stock in the Berlin R. Please stop touting the product it does not help.
I also have a pair of Berlin mini in bright red with a maple horn very cool $1500
Csmgolf, this is nothing compared to some other vendors here that use multiple names.
Regardless of Moutain-high's critics' apparent biases... the Berlin II Mini Monitor is superb!
Few speakers provide the life-like timbre, attack & decay, vibrato, tone, tenor and texture of real live instruments as well as these do - particularly acoustic instruments like the sax, upright bass, acoustic guitar, drum kits, etc.
If you're a gradofan, as I am, you'll understand immediately. These have the same sound qualities of the Reference Grado phones, which with the right set up, provides a more life-like sound than any other phones produced, bar none (eg. Stax, Senns, Audeze, Hifi-Man, etc.). While that's, obviously, my opinion... if you don't agree... you obviously haven't heard the Grados at their best (or I suppose I may not have heard the others at their best). But, there is something about wooden cups that makes the difference.
And the soundstage and imaging are superb as well.
Very life-like sound overall.
I just received a pair of these and hooked them up to my Parasound Halo and EVA FET Pre set ups - which is not too much power for these efficient speakers... and... they sound just as described above with a number of sources (tube, SS, and Digital). I'm sure they sound great with good tube equipment, which will add even more realism to the sound they produce.
If you're a fan of classical, chamber, jazz, R&B, country, bluegrass... or... anything acoustic... you'll be very pleased with these speakers. If you're not a fan of these types of music... don't waste your money, anything will do.
So... lighten up on Moutain-high... yes, he has a bias, which must be pointed out... but... from my perspective, it is well founded (apart from his economic interest).
Will dc10 be at this years RMAF ??
Got it! It's posted on their website!
Do you know what they will be showing?? Amps, speakers etc?
Quad-Man is DC10 Audio. You're actually talking to them (him).
Krell man is correct! I work for dc10audio!!
Kevin and David will be at this years RMAF and will have Berlin R and the new dc10audio tube monoblocks / pre-amp all trimmed in zebra-wood! This year should be great!!!