Anyone Using Crystals?

geoffkait,

Sounds like you need to take a rest. After you have are up and around again we look forward to more of your amazing insights. Thank goodness the cat has not got your tongue. Lol.

How long have you been obsessed with me?

😬

About as long as you have been obsessed with me. I think it was love at first sight. Lol. How about a group hug.

I suggest a long cold shower and see if it goes down.

I thought you liked group hugs. Have you lost your sense of humor? By the way, speaking of group hugs, how are pebble sales this week? Maybe we can help you move some stock.

I cannot not be funny. My father was a standup comedian.

That explains everything.

Hello to all,

Yes i use stones and crytals in my system and room... In the beginning i have read about some people who sell that, Walker, Bybee, Geoff Kait, acoustic revive etc... I dont had money to buy that and i dont had initial trust or experience with crystals...It is like astrology, i dont had faith in that, like professional pseudo scientist, or like people who pay for their future,by the way because i am curious with no faith, nor negative faith neither positive one, i read approx. one hundred books about astrology occidental and indian one,in the last 40 years, to make my OWN opinion,but this is another story...Back to crystals and stones, i make the same study and experiment myself, and amazingly that works for me, i treat my room with that,and all my system with great benefits... It is not perfect, very rudimentary but it work on a unexpected level... I had try dozens of stones and crystals looking for the good one...I only say to people, inform yourself, experiment, dont buy anything to anyone before experimenting, for the last year that was great fun, and my one thousand dollars system all in all give me so great joys that i am no more envious of the ten thousand dollars system of others, mine is perhaps less efficient, but music when it is there is music, and i have it now at a relatively low cost, (Mission cyrus 181 speakers,beresford bushmaster dac, Sansui au-7700, with cheap room treatment of my own+stones and crystals implemented by me) ... Best regards to all...

postscriptum: By the way invoking science is in no way a good excuse to repudiate personal experimentation;and all scientific explanation by the sellers about the use of crystals and stones are probably bogus,but waiting a new sound scientific theory of acoustic before experimenting is ridiculous to say the least....

mahgister,

What kinds of crystals -- and size -- are you using? And where are you using them in your system?

I had try many, but the most effective materials coupling implicate, pink quartz, tourmaline red green and black chunks, madagascar banded agate polished chunks varied in size, shungite ordinary peebles or elite,fluorite crystals,amethysts crystals or peebles, small lava beads, many other species also, but i speak now only of the most useful one and you must experiment one pieces at a time, because all rooms and all systems are different... I place them often with blutaks in ALL links, going from the electrical central panels first ,to the speakers and headphones, with all links in between treated one at a each time... Some placement are incredible, for example using some metal bowls on the walls at ear level with some crystals in their center to treat the radiating room....I dont have much money, i use low cost solutions... The final results kills my urge to change and buy,so-call upgraditis...I now know why people are not satisfied by their sometimes already good listening system, they lack something they cannot pin-point...My system is not the best, only a simple one with optimal results,with now first and foremost ethereal imaging,and naturalness of musical timbre... It takes me some years of reading here and there, buying very good vintage at small price,after that in the last months, crystals and stones maximalized all their potentials...I am in a small room in nearfield listening but the room treatment with low cost materials(different density foam panels and pieces) was very efficient and imperative, i improvise that one thing at a time with my hearing tools(ears) only...Crystals and stones after that transform the soundstage imaging of my headphones and speakers and of the room...I am no more envious of out of reach audiophile costly products, and i listen to my music...i wish you the best...

I must add something tough, controlling vibrations and negative subsequent resonance seems to my ears very important, in all links there is some negative vibrations, and damping or cancelling them is vital, i use different materials with load, sorbothane,cork, bamboo plate, granite plate etc...the other important task was cancelling EMI with stones and crystals...I dont know any convincing explanation for that, but with stones and crystals that works... Best regards

I realize the idea of RFI/EMI absorption or dissipation using crystals has been bandied around a lot but actually I find that - in almost almost all cases - the method of operation is vibration control. It doesn’t make sense that crystals react one way or the other to RFI/EMI since RF is moving at light speed and is all around the room simultaneously, so the idea that a crystal or crystals can influence a room full of RFI/EMI is a little far fetched. Crystals are not magnets for RFI/EMI. Even when crystals are used in proximity to electron tubes or wall outlets or the circuit breaker box the method of operation is most likely vibration control, not RFI/EMI absorption, although I can see why some might think so.

This mechanism of crystals to control vibration can be easily demonstrated by placing my crystals on top of tube traps and other similar devices, allowing those devices to operate more efficiently. Also on glass windows and sliding glass doors. I always find its best not to constrain or suppress the natural operation of crystals as resonantors using Blu tack or similar materials rather let the crystals touch whatever you place them on unencumbered and free to resonate.

I think that there is no explanation that i know of, and your argument are sound to me, but in my experience blutak does not act negatively in all cases,and by my experiment the effect of crystals is not explained by the concept of vibration control, it is more complex than that and i have no scientific possibility to understand that...All crystals act in a synergetic manner together, compensating their effects in a positive or negative way, and no crystals act the same exactly, ocean jasper is not red jasper, and kambaba jasper act more like ocean jasper , way better than red jasper in my system and they act very well indeed...But the possibility to detect these subtle changes depend of your particular system, antecedent modifications etc...

Walker ideas to use metal bowl on walls, with crystal at the center of the bowls works, i try it myself with my owns means,how do you explain that this transform the acoustic of a room ? by damping the mechanical vibrations ? i dont buy that... Best regards to you, i must say that i have read your past posts at another forum by the way and that inspire me to experiment a great deal thank you...

Another remark, i speak of EMI,because i know that all piece of gear interact together, and with external fields also, by a means i cannot understand crystals and some stones modify that global field and this modify the acoustic field in the end...I cannot explain that and nobody i know of...Alas!

No later than today,i discover that agate works less well on top of my dac than ocean jasper and Kambaba jasper ? I dont think that only damping property of the crystal for mechanical vibrations can explain that...but i cannot contradict that if you say so.... I am not a scientist...

My products each employ various crystals of various sizes and types. The reason I use multiple crystal types per product is because all crystal types have their own "bandwidth" if you will, so using multiple crystals in the same location/application spreads out the effective bandwidth. The "bandwidth of operation" for a crystal is a function of the specific atomic structure of the crystal, a symmetrical 3D structure. So agate might work very well in one place but not so well in another place. And because crystals are resonators they can hurt the sound in some places. Trying to match a certain single crystal to an audio application is a little too much trial and error for me. 😀

i think the same on that, and my experiment confirm what you said...Thanks Geoffkait

mahgister,

Thank you very much for all the details. Your thoroughness and patience have been the keys to your success.

You stated, "... you must experiment one pieces at a time, because all rooms and all systems are different ..." This has also been my experience.

You stated, "... for example using some metal bowls on the walls at ear level with some crystals in their center ..." I will be experimenting with this method soon.

You also talked about "controlling vibrations and negative subsequent resonance". I use sand boxes under and above components for this purpose with good results.

You stated, " ... Crystals damping the mechanical vibrations ? i dont buy that ..." Neither do I. My experiments -- like yours that have been ongoing over a period of years -- do not support this conclusion.

As you rightly point out, patience and trial and error are the keys to success here. You have clearly shown that even modest systems can be transformed if you have the necessary patience to persist with the lengthy trial and error process.

You stated, "The final results kills my urge to change and buy, so-call upgraditis ..." This has also been my experience. Using devices to dampen mechanical vibrations and using various resonators and crystals to create resonance have enabled my system to produce a quality of sound I had no idea was possible to attain when I began this project.

Finally! The suspense was killing me. The OP steps up to the plate, taps the plate a few times with his bat, gets set, swings ...and ...misses! Whoosh! The breeze feels good.

I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it looks like this thread is destined to become a repeat of the tiny little bowl thread. Note to self: Sometimes it’s better to remain an observer and refrain from getting involved in one’s own trollie mollie OP.

I dont know the little bowl thread...

But my experiment with crystals comme from some boys, Geoff Kait, another one Walker, and finally after acoustic revive products, Jack Bybee, who claims that some crystals suspended on a wall can transform the soundstage of the speakers... I dont have this kind of money and cannot afford his product, then i decide to experiment with my own possibilities, the conclusion is , yes , some crystals can transform the acoustic of a room... In my case with my own very rough experimentation,there is some subtle but clearly there is an EFFECT, i use only some copper bowl plate (like Walker product) with fluorite crystals and shungite, the effect was there... I dont say that this experiment of mine equal Bybee more sophisticate product, or Walker products, i dont know and probably not, but at the end perhaps there is something there...I think so now...in conclusion crystals dont act only by damping effect...This is more complex phenomenon...

Another piece of the evidence that crystals are primarily anti resonance devices is that ideal locations for crystals around the room can be found using a SPL meter and an appropriate test tone such as the one found on the XLO Test CD. What you’ll find is that there are many peaks in the room including out in the 3D space of the room where the sound pressure is much higher than the average sound pressure in the room. It’s these sound pressure peaks where the crystals - mine work best for this application since they’re designed with the audiophile in mind and have very wide bandwidth - improve the sound.

So, you have to ask yourself, what’s going on here? Well, it’s not such a big mystery. It’s like the tiny little bowl resonators I alluded to, the threads here a few months back get into all the gory details of how the tiny bowls work including vibration control and RFI/EMI absorption. In any case, I think it’s clear that crystals usually operate in the room by absorbing mechanical (acoustic) vibration and reducing comb filter effects. Placing crystals or groups of crystals at first reflection points, room corners especially on the floor, at points on the wall where there are high sound pressures like on the back wall between the speakers, and on glass windows and sliding doors, among other things, is a very effective way to treat room anomalies. Even hanging them out in the space of the room from the ceiling to address the peaks out in the room. And as I mentioned before even when crystals are placed on or inside wall outlets, in proximity to electron tubes, inside breaker boxes, on top of electronic components, on stereo cartridges, on top of CD players, where effects might appear related to RFI/EMI, it’s actually vibration that is the issue.

And if you have any tube traps or Helmholtz resonators around, or tiny little bowls, crystals will improve their performance.

Now, there may be some other, more mysterious things going on - I never say never, but crystals in audio applications, even on audio components and speakers and cable connectors, appear to be resonance and vibration control related. And if anyone has any ideas about any other mechanism other than vibration absorption and RFI/EMI absorption by all means lay it on me, I’m all ears.

There is likely just one useful crystal in your system and that is the clock for the DAC...... The rest is all mumbo jumbo. Spend your money on room treatments and decent gear.

Hey, raindance, nice to see you back. When did you get out?

Raindance you are certainly a seer or a medium.... you know better than me and my hears what is effective or not in my system...Congratulations.... 

Geoff kait you have more experience than me with a possible explanations about crystals... I am no scientist , my remarks are only my uninformed opinions...Thanks for your reply....

By the way Raindance i already have a room treatment ... Are your medium capacity void suddenly about that?

 And also Raindance is Sansui AU 7700 a decent gear? Mission cyrus 781 are they decent speakers? I will wait for your opinion...For sure...

Mahgister,

You are most certainly entitled to express your opinions. I will defend to the death your right to express them. Nevertheless.......😄

"There is likely just one useful crystal in your system and that is the clock for the DAC...... The rest is all mumbo jumbo. Spend your money on room treatments and decent gear."

Yup.

maghister - how do you know your experience is not the result of confirmation bias??

How do you know in the first place that raindance affirmation is not the result of confirmation bias? And how do you decide yourself which of us ,Raindance and me are without bias? Are you King Salomon ?

My opinion is just that, my opinion, but here i described my experiment, and convey just that, my experience, but without any experimentation with stones and crystals, why someone would dare to pass judgment like "mumbo Jumbo" about someone else experience without trying before mouthing...For sure i have bias, it is the reason i experiment in the first place to confirm or infirm my bias...But bias without experience is only prejudice...Bias confirmed many times begin to ressemble to an informed opinion but only that, an informed opinion...A kind of  educated bias...

I read my reply and perhaps i am a bit rude, i apologize if so...best regards

My advice is: tape some stones(pink quartz or agate or some jasper etc) on the central electrical panel of your house, after that your first bias will change for a new bias, and time +experiment will infirm or confirm some of  your bias...It is my experience and humble opinion, not"mumbo jumbo" for sure... Best regards to all

my second advice: Tape now some stones or crystals around the electrical cable that come from your central electrical panel....Better sound will come and this will reinforce perhaps what is only a bias, but you will go on with experiment to confirm or infirm this results +bias...Best regards

did you mean King Salmon ??

oups! yes King Salmon....i apologize, for sure my english is not first class...

my third advice: after these 2 experiments, now add 120 gram minimum of shungite peebles or a pyramid of this size, on top of your central electrical panel, this experience will inforce some change of bias, yes,and hearing the always more pleasing ,more silky sound perhaps will dissolve the prejudice and transform it in an informed bias...Try it and do not even thank me...Other experience are possible after that...And your bias ,same as mine now will wait for a theory to come....For now i have none...

mahgister,

I agree with you that the use of crystals is complex. And I agree with you that we should not "... dare to pass judgment like "mumbo Jumbo" about someone else experience without trying before mouthing ...".

Lest anyone get the wrong idea Randee is our local comedy act. 

King Salmon? Whoa! Hey! Lots a yuks! Wow, ya gotta be super sharp to keep up with this crowd. Sometimes serious discussion can serve no real porpoise.

I have been experimenting with tourmaline and some of the ideas mentioned in this thread.  I have heard some very good results, so thanks for all the ideas Geoff and @mahgister and others.  One thing I didn't see above (but I could have missed something as there are many good ideas embedded above) is that it is quite effective to close off open USB and ethernet ports on modems/computers etc with crumbled tourmaline powder pressed onto bits of silicon caulking material.  I emptied tourmaline powder into convenient crevices in my main Verizon modem and also put a piece of tourmaline inside my Apple Airport Express which serves as router.  All of these tricks have been quite effective in improving my computer audio sound quality. I'll also be trying out some of the other stones/crystals mentioned here in time.

@agriculturist what color Tourmaline?

I used black tourmaline that I bought on eBay from the seller worldincensestore. He has both glossy black tourmaline rods and rough black rocks. I have both but can’t tell the difference sound wise anyway. Bits of the rough black rocks are easier to crumble, and you might find some small amount of powder in your shipment due to impact in transit.

I am finding the biggest impact of using black tourmaline around the fuse box. The effect is on naturalness and coherence overall, and bass and mid-range. I was surprised by the sharply different effect I got from a piece of red agate in treble output around the fuse box, and am now very happy with a combo of the tourmaline and agate there. And then I have tourmaline rocks now sitting on most of my AC cable ends and in total they have a nice impact. As noted above by others placement does seem to matter. I want to try the tourmaline inside my balanced power transformer conditioners next, maybe next weekend.

I use pure black Tourmaline crystals for my Tourmaline Gun. Which is the reincarnation of Brian Kyle’s Tourmaline Gun. Of course Tourmaline is a well known pyroelectric crystal and produces negative ions when heated. It’s rather unlikely tourmaline’s pyroelectric property would be present or activated, whatever when applied to a RCA Jack or connector. Obviously all unused RCA jacks should be covered with something, Cardas Caps or whatever. I also am the proud inventor of using crystals on interconnect connectors and many other locations around the room. Brilliant Pebbles is what, almost 15 years old? Time flies when you’re having fun. 😛

Black Tourmaline has many uses that many would find hard to believe.
I'll just leave it at that.

I have only been using the powdered black tourmaline in computer and modem USB and ethernet jacks which tend to get a bit warm from the heat hose units generate, so perhaps that is why I am finding it somewhat helpful there.  I have not found tourmaline helpful around audio RCA jacks or audio interconnects.  I do use Cardas caps for open RCA jacks.  Also black tourmaline was somewhat helpful on my AC connectors which may get a little warm.  I also have some tourmaline inside my tubed DAC placed near the rectifier tube which presumably is hot enough to generate a decent benefit which I heard.  I haven't heard anything special from placing them near my integrated amp's exposed tubes yet, but I will try that again sometime.  Definitely got a small advantage inside my small BPT conditioner which is used for computer audio devices with SMPS.  

A very pleasant surprise was the increase in cleanliness overall from a red fire agate stone near my fuse box.  Odd thing is that tourmaline seems to be good around the fuses themselves but definitely not on the other side of the same box which is accessible from my cabinet and is encased in plastic and inside a steel box.  On that other side the agate seems to be very helpful. 

Geoff, at some point I would like to try out your pebbles for RCAs.  

Have you guys been taking crystal meths? Seriously, next time we discuss occult powers.

lak
Black Tourmaline has many uses that many would find hard to believe.
I’ll just leave it at that.

>>>>Huh? What? Why leave it at that? That’s no fun. Share, share!

Hey now! Geoffkait scored a customer! Isn't that worthy of noting? I, for one, do not wish to know where people are sticking their crystals…it's simply none of my business.

crystals work great in your graphene connector goo!!!

I use it on my pet unicorn!

@geoffkait, @lak or anyone else who might know the answer to this safe operation type of question please. I have a piece of unshielded tourmaline sitting inside my DAC on the PCB right on top of what is a live conductor strip that is connected to what I believe is the voltage regulator of the DAC. So I guess this is not the DAC PCB. I have the tourmaline held down on the PCB on its edges with some blu-tack. The tourmaline piece actually straddles a couple of potentially live conducting metal strips. Do you think this is unsafe or could potentially damage my DAC? I did this because I believe that tourmaline is essentially non-conductive. And more importantly I believe that electricity (just as heat too) causes it to discharge ions in the way that is helpful. What I can definitively say is that the effect on my DAC’s sound quality is very nice indeed. Well worth my while leaving this way so long as it is safe. Your help/ideas as to safety etc. much appreciated. Thanks.