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Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
kennyc
2,837 posts
 

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding

Maybe you could turn your negative hearsay into a positive by explaining what you would use instead?

Calm down, only informing what I discovered which may be helpful.

Early on, I thought Sorbathane was an ideal and affordable option to mitigate unwanted vibrations. But after combing forums, many reported it negatively affects the Sonics. Seems that not all vibration mitigation devices work well with the internal micro vibrations of electronic components.

I use a HRS RXR rack with RXR vibration reduction isolation platforms. Seeking another stand alone platform for my 61kg (135lb) integrated. HRS seems best but a tough budget reach. Also plan to add CMS Center Point Footers which after sonic roller coaster it settles to great sonic improvement. Guessing it somehow harmonizes the micro vibrations- a bit over my head. Personality, I do not need to understand the process as I’m primarily interested in price/positively increased Sonics. 

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
7,833 posts
 

@richardbrand is this the Mahler 7 recording you referenced earlier in this thread?

dwette
531 posts
 

@kennyc 

I also use HRS. I have two EXR 21’ x 19" racks (3-shelf, 4-shelf). My 145 lb Clearaudio Master Innovation sits on one rack, but I additionally have a M3X2 isolation base under it. I also use a R3X isolation base under my Boulder phono-stage (along with HRS's largest damping plate on top).

I can play anything without worry about rumble and other acoustic feedback, even with my full range floor standing speakers and REL six-pack.

Isolation is key to getting great performance and minimal interference out of vinyl, IMO.

kennyc
2,837 posts
 

@dwette 

I believe that Harmonic Resolution Systems isolation platforms and Critical Mass Systems shelves might offer the best sonic support of audio components.

CMS shelves come in various dimensions, but only 1 weight range option 0-200lbs.
HRS platforms also come in various dimensions, but offer several weight range options which seems to be better to fit the components weight.

On its own I’d prefer HRS, but what level? Thinking about S level, but my rationalize brain says “okay to get M level as I already saved on the electronics”🙄

There is a used 3.3k CMS shelf for 1.2k. Since I’m going to use CMS Center Point footers anyway, maybe brand synergy? Also, Audionet Humboldt already has vibration mitigation built into the design so likely the combo would be enough? I’m leaning this way to save a few $ for other…rabbit holes…

Another great budget performer is to use a slab of Panzerholz plywood, but I’m not fond of the look.

kennyc
2,837 posts
 

@richardbrand Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Instead of quieter vinyl, your thread has my asking “ through components, how to you lower surface noise? Better cartridges, tonearms, phono stages…?” I know that DS Audio tech is quieter, I hope to be able to reach W level someday, maybe Japan trip. Probably have to open a new thread sometime

There is a current thread on Groove Glide which seems to be a vinyl lubricant, but I much prefer the cleanest vinyl using a Ultrasonic RCM

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