I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding
Maybe you could turn your negative hearsay into a positive by explaining what you would use instead?
Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?
Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.
A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there). The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved. However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).
Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.
The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia. Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.
Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise. My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).
I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP). It includes some Telarc tracks. This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard. There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.
So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble? Could it be from the mastering lathe?
I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.
- ...
- 97 posts total
What did you find problematic with Sorbothane? I have used it with good effect in the past, mostly for turntable support/isolation. I don’t use it now – because I have changed my turntable and isolation – but I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a negative impact using Sorbothane. I suppose it can be misused but I’ve had good success with it before. It’s like many other things in our hobby. It may or may not work for a particular situation, but generalizing about it one way or the other – based on anecdotal experience – isn’t really useful or helpful. |
Dear @richardbrand : Before to take the Tacet " numbers " as a true you need to measure the tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency through maths: Cartridge Resonance Evaluator - Vinyl Engine Then you can do any tests you want it but first you need to know which is the reality on your tonearm/combination. If the Tacet says the same FR resonance number , good No, the ideal on that resonance FR is between 8hz to 10Hz.
Now, other than the " inherent " resorded noises and TT ones exist resonances between any LP and the tonarm/cartridge stylus during playback. For example: no one LP is totally flat at both sides so always exist those waves in the LP surface thatdevelops micro or macro resonancs/noises and no platter weigth or other type of clamp can makes it disappears., but exist other developed resonace/noice between the cartridge stylus and tonearm and is the LP surface ( both sides ) feedback that pick-up te stylus/tonearm and that unfortunatelly return to the cartridge it self. There are no perfect LP or perfect cartridge or perfect tonearm and the like, even all those analog characteristics you need start for the begin ding the job in the link I posted. Btw, you posted that with the Audio Technica MM cartridge you have not the trouble noise. I don't know for sure if the tracking ability of that AT is higher than the DS Audio one. Bu again we have to start at the begin. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
This goes without saying as part of your initial set up procedure but it will never work unless the cartridge wasn't properly chosen for compliance and mass in the first place. Secondly, why doesn't everyone equate warp information with rumble? Rumble is a mechanical artifact of a poorly designed, machined or damaged main baring and as the plater spins on it, the noise is transferred up through the platter and the vinyl and is then picked by the cartridge and often sounds like a faint cyclical roar in the background during quieter music passages. I used to think it was groove roar until I started moving up in the quality of the turntables I was using that had much better fabricated main baring's thus the phenomenon became forever inaudible. |
@faustuss Since the mid' 90's I developed an interest in improving a Platter Spindle Bearing, where a Garrard 401 was the first Donor Model. The work done by Dr Martin Bastin, proved very worthwhile; too many years are now passed to suggest I recollect the improvements, but there was enough from the experience to set me on a path of discovery, where a Stethoscope was used to assess the work being done. The next challenges were worked on with Lenco ID TT's, and later this was to become the foundation for work done on Vintage Japanese DD TT's. The loss of noise and increase in detail, dynamics and envelope have always been the end result. The idea of removing metal on metal and extremely tight tolerances in use for alternative materials if common used metals has been a substantial contribution. A spindle rotating on a much improved axis at substantially reduced friction. This is created through the design, where the spindle is seated upon non-metal low-friction material, and the spindle is contained within non-metal bushes which are custom measured to the spindle and allow very low micron tolerance. Combining these control measures is also another substantial contribution. I am in full agreement that measures put in place to improve how the Spindle interfaces with the bearing housing and platter will substantially reduce the noise floor, resulting in a major improvement to the end sound; details, dynamics and envelope become discernible and easier to detect their presence in the structuring of the produced sound.
|
- 97 posts total