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Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,363 posts
 

@billstevenson 

Arm/cartridge resonance has nothing at all to do with how loudly you play your music.  In fact resonance can be measured in total silence. 

Agreed, except that I think my Tacet test record requires acoustic feedback and a human ear to listen for mis-tracking.  It is totally different to say Analog Magik which uses computer programs to analyse waveforms.

The target is for the arm to vibrate in a range between 8-12 Hz.  Yours is 6 Hz, which is causing something to vibrate sympathetically, probably a simple multiple of that value. 

There seems to be a resonance at 6-Hz, but I now think it is not the arm, but the sub-plinth where I was aiming for 4-Hz.  Will let you know in a few weeks after I change the suspension from 8 sorbothane hemispheres to 6!

By placing a weight on the head shell and rebalancing the tonearm, you effectively increased the mass of the cartridge/arm assemblage.  I know that is counter-intuitive, but it changed your resonant frequency and got you our of that situation.  End result: it sounds a little cleaner.  

I did not really see any change in the resonant frequency!  It is still 6-Hz.

This is all useful stuff - thank you

kennyc
2,836 posts
 

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding. 

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,363 posts
 

@kennyc 

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding

Maybe you could turn your negative hearsay into a positive by explaining what you would use instead?

dwette
531 posts
 

@kennyc 

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding. 

What did you find problematic with Sorbothane? I have used it with good effect in the past, mostly for turntable support/isolation. I don’t use it now – because I have changed my turntable and isolation – but I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a negative impact using Sorbothane. I suppose it can be misused but I’ve had good success with it before.

It’s like many other things in our hobby. It may or may not work for a particular situation, but generalizing about it one way or the other – based on anecdotal experience – isn’t really useful or helpful.

rauliruegas
13,330 posts
 

Dear @richardbrand  : Before to take the Tacet " numbers " as a true you need to measure the tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency through maths:

Cartridge Resonance Evaluator - Vinyl Engine

Then you can do any tests you want it but first you need to know which is the reality on your tonearm/combination.

If the Tacet says the same FR resonance number , good

No, the ideal on that resonance FR is between 8hz to 10Hz.

 

Now, other than the " inherent " resorded noises and TT ones exist resonances between any LP and the tonarm/cartridge stylus during playback.

For example: no one LP is totally flat at both sides so always exist those waves in the LP surface thatdevelops micro or macro resonancs/noises and no platter weigth or other type of clamp can makes it disappears., but exist other developed resonace/noice between the cartridge stylus and tonearm and is the LP surface ( both sides ) feedback that pick-up te stylus/tonearm and that unfortunatelly return to the cartridge it self.

There are no perfect LP or perfect cartridge or perfect tonearm and the like, even all those analog characteristics you need start for the begin ding the job in the link I posted.

Btw, you posted that with the Audio Technica MM cartridge you have not the trouble noise. I don't know for sure if the tracking ability of  that AT is higher than the DS Audio one. Bu again we have to start at the begin.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

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