Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?


Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand

@dogberry 

Can I ask for clarification - your title mentions rumble on classical records. Are there records, of any sort, without rumble? Because if there are, your turntable is not at fault.

Yes, I have mentioned a few records that are very quiet.

They tend to be labelled "Audiophile" and 180-grams but I just think the producers have taken more care than usual.

Classical records tend not to be closely miked and 'voiced' on mixing desks, so there is more chance for venue noise to make it to the vinyl.

And I suspect with some genres, it is very difficult to tell the difference!

@sbsail9 

But to say that you never hear any surface noise or rarely hear it on vinyl just seems impossibe

I agree, but I also think the resolution of your equipment matters.

The Holbo has a very low intrinsic noise floor, and when I coupled it with a DS Audio optical cartridge, which has both high output and low noise, I started to hear things I had not noticed before - like very quiet, low organ notes and what I call record-rumble.

Having heard these things for the first time, I can still hear them when I go back to my more conventional Garrard.  Using the Holbo has in effect trained my ear/brain.  That's a bit scary

@billstevenson 

Arm/cartridge resonance has nothing at all to do with how loudly you play your music.  In fact resonance can be measured in total silence. 

Agreed, except that I think my Tacet test record requires acoustic feedback and a human ear to listen for mis-tracking.  It is totally different to say Analog Magik which uses computer programs to analyse waveforms.

The target is for the arm to vibrate in a range between 8-12 Hz.  Yours is 6 Hz, which is causing something to vibrate sympathetically, probably a simple multiple of that value. 

There seems to be a resonance at 6-Hz, but I now think it is not the arm, but the sub-plinth where I was aiming for 4-Hz.  Will let you know in a few weeks after I change the suspension from 8 sorbothane hemispheres to 6!

By placing a weight on the head shell and rebalancing the tonearm, you effectively increased the mass of the cartridge/arm assemblage.  I know that is counter-intuitive, but it changed your resonant frequency and got you our of that situation.  End result: it sounds a little cleaner.  

I did not really see any change in the resonant frequency!  It is still 6-Hz.

This is all useful stuff - thank you

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding. 

@kennyc 

I’ve seen a lot of negative discussions about using Sorbothane with audio components so I’m avoiding

Maybe you could turn your negative hearsay into a positive by explaining what you would use instead?