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The muddy waters of Analogue vs. digital today

With new technology, everything is changing so fast it is hard to keep up with new recordings. I have had a turntable all of my audiophile life, although I admit I played mostly CDs for many years. It was only since I upgraded my analogue system to a certain degree in the mid-nineties, that I could hear that records sounded better than CDs. It wasn’t a very expensive upgrade, a used Rega 3 with glass platter, new Sumiko Bluepoint Special, and a floor demo ARC PH-3. Probably somewhere around $3K. Mid-90s remember.

Now my system is very upgraded and I can hear more differences between vinyl and streaming at high resolution. CDs have kind of been left in the dust. 44.1 resolution sounds kind of tinny and flat. I listen if that’s my only choice, but I can easily hear the difference. I credit myself with a decent ear after doing critial listening for 30+ years. My ear is not as good as most reviewers, but you'll understand why it’s good enough to write a forward to this thread.

I won’t go through the differences I hear between analogue and digital, because you’ve heard it all before. What I want to talk about is my confusion in this new recording landscape. 

I had purchased Roberta Flack’s "First Take" when it came out and I’d kept the record for more than forty years when I realized it had really seen its better days. Basically, it was unlistenable, even after a few washes in the Degritter. I looked at near mint copies of the record and they were quite expensive. Then I saw that there was a new pressing for a reasonable price.

I was listening to the new pressing of "First Take" a few days ago when I realized it sounded overly compressed at the high end. I asked my new audiophile friend chatgpt if the record was pressed from an analogue source. Nope. I was basically listening to a digital recording pressed into vinyl. Chatgpt says that most records made after 1980 come from digital sources. So, I found a reasonablly priced orignal pressing of "First Take." My grandaugher in college can have the digital one.

Today I was playing a fairly new recording of Gustavo Dudamel and Yuja Wang playing Rachmaninoff’s Variations on a Theme by Paganini. I live in L.A. and have been lucky enough to see Dudamel live many times and Yuga Wang several times. It’s a beautiful recording, wide and deep and detailed and musical. I pronounced it the best classical recording I owned. But it was put out recently. So, I checked with my audiophile buddy chatgpt. The record is from a very high resolution digital source. Chatgpt says that digital can sound more analogue on vinyl because the engineers roll off the high end a bit.

So, now things are more than a bit confusing. Do I buy a recording from before the 80’s on expensive vinyl or might it actually sound better streaming at 192 kHz? If you listen to Patricia Barber’s "Clique" at 172 kHz, it sounds pretty good. So good, i have not bothered to go out and buy it on vinyl.

Does anyone else feel a similar confusion in this modern market, and do you have any suggestions for negotiating it?

audio-b-dog
audio-b-dog's avatar
audio-b-dog OP
782 posts
 

@nitewulf @audphile1 

I streamed a Norah Jones album and it sounded good. I can't remember the resolution, though. 

I think the bottom line is that purchasing music is much more complicated than it used to be. When they turn a mono album into stereo, I think they can do it without a digital source. Simply by running certain tracks through one speaker and other tracks through another. The lead sax through the left speaker and the drums through the right. When they take a mono album and make it stereo, I press the mono button on my preamp and that helps.

I now listen to anything new I might want to purchase through my streamer. I only buy albums I think would be enhanced in the analogue domain, and I make sure it comes from an analogue bass. Otherwise, I simply stream it when I want to hear it.

For example, I liked Wayne Shorter's "Speak no Evil" streamed, and I believed that for jazz like that I could hear more depth from analogue. I was right. I also purchased Cassandra Wilson's "New Moon Daughter" mastered from an analogue tape. It sounds fantastic on vinyl.

I think we just have to think more carefully about what we're buying. Chatgbt can be a good friend in that regard. It has an amazing amount of info about how albums were recorded and pressed.

I have tried comparing CDs to the streaming version of an album. So far, I haven't been able to hear the difference. It takes time, however, so I have only tried on Dido's "No Angel." They are both full bodied and enjoyable at Red Book CD sound. I think streaming is a game changer, if you are able to stream. 

nitewulf
453 posts
 

@audphile1 , depends, I have most of those, along with Music Matters (The OG Tone Poet) and Classic records. The MM and TP stereo remasters are great, sometimes better than OGs, but they aren’t doing a lot of mono remasters and where available they don’t compare. But good enough if you can’t procure clean original copies, which basically are no longer realistic to purchase. The OG Blue Note monos have a presence and sense of space that modern remasters aren’t touching. 

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
7,857 posts
 

@nitewulf yes the OGs are not approachable price wise. 
So I opted for the Tone Poet and was surprised at how good they are. 
Also, I was recently looking for Sonny Rollins “Saxophone Colossus” and man they’re crazy expensive. Then Acoustic Sounds released it in mono as part of their Analog Productions series. Amazing quality, all analog. 
Craft OJC are great as well. We’re finally able to buy all analog on new high quality vinyl without spending thousands on the originals.

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,693 posts
 

You should get a Music Matters or three.

and a couple of RVG simultaneous mono and stereo works… not exactly a single variable analysis but very illuminating imo ymmv

generally I think format wars are a waste of time… but Nyquist might have got something right but one must consider the sonic impact of brick wall filters…. Pre ringing… huh ?

but print thru on tape and vinyl are real in high

res systems… see Classic Records one sided 45’s

nitewulf
453 posts
 

@audio-b-dog As far as I know, Vinyl Me Please, Blue Note Tone Poet and BN Classic series - these are both current productions are all analog where master tapes are in good condition. And there’s provenance, they provide the info on the website. Original Jazz Classics from the 90’s are all analog and best bang for buck for a long time, as you can find these for $5 - $10 bucks. The new ones from Acoustic Sounds are all analog but cost $40 each. Rhino Hi Fidelity all analog. Acoustic Sounds Bluesville are all analog. 

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