Apogee Scintilla’s: Buying advice and are they worth the hassle
Hi, I’m recently looking to acquire a pair of Apogee Scintillas (the later one ohm only version), and have recently auditioned for a pair.
First, my own newbie impressions: They are the first full range ribbon speakers I’ve ever heard, and I really like the insane transparency in the midrange and highs and the soundstage they create are scarily real, with the only downside being that the bass isn’t really solid, making it preform really well on jazz strings and female vocals but not so much on male vocals and symphonies. Overall though I would say while they seem to be specialist speakers for particular genres of music, in these genres they really shine, and I was pretty impressed.
For those who have owned Apogee full range ribbons and those who are familiar with planar speakers, do you find them easier to fail than speakers with traditional drivers? I know that the Scintillas are notorious for their 1 ohm loads, which would require a Krell or Mark Levinson from that era to power. Furthermore, the foam that holds the ribbons taut tend to rot if not taken care well. Has any of this been a problem that may indicate a high probability for a repair job given their age? Also, is the Krell KST-100 sufficient to power them?
Lastly, I’d like to inquire as to whether there is any advice for checking the speakers condition. During my audition, the seller was powering them with a McIntosh MC7270 I’ve played a slew of tracks, which the speakers seem to play without trouble. However, nearing the end of my audition I played Capricho Arabe preformed by Mats Bergstrom, and I noticed a distortion at the end of higher notes, and the track after that also displayed a similar behavior. I’ve noticed the power of the McIntosh reached maximum a few times during stronger attacks, so it might very well be distortion because the amplifier was clipping, but when the volume was turned down the distortion persists, only ceasing after I turned the volume to whispering levels. Curiously, this only happened for the last two tracks and not for the other tracks I’ve played during the audition.
Is there anyway I could differentiate whether the distortion was due to the amplifier clipping or physical defects of the ribbons, given that I nor the seller seems to have a sufficient amplifier to power them properly, and what other physical appearances could I check to make sure they are in good condition? I noticed there are crinkles on the ribbons (shown in the pictures), are these normal, or are they ribbon sag which might explain the distortion?
I apologize if this has been a very long post, but it is a significant purchase for me, and any advice would be very welcome. Thanks in advance!
Dear @takefive_8518 @jimmyblues1959 : As other posted the amp is way important.
I owned those speakers handled by the Classé DR 3-VHC with no need to configurate in mono the Classe advantage is its very high headroom that if I remember is around 6-7db.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@rauliruegas The DR3 VHC was a beast of a power amplifier! I owned one in the mid 1990's to power a pair of Harbeth HLP3ES bookshelf speakers and while it sounded fantastic it was complete overkill. The DR3 VHC was also an energy eater and ran almost as hot as a pot belly stove, so I eventually sold it. Its internal architecture was a work of art. IMHO, David Reich's best design. 👍 |
Dear @jimmyblues1959 : In stereo mode the DR3-VHC gives you 200 watts in pure class A at 1 ohm and with headroom reserve.
Yes the best D. Reich design with out doubt and even today almost unbeatable.
R. |
@rooze How would you say electrostatics and planar magnetic differ in sound? Locally there is a acoustat 1+1 for sale, and from what I understand they are more robust than the Scintilla, while also not being so demanding on the amp. Have you any opinions on Acoustat speakers? Thanks! |
@rooze Having owned both ribbon planar and electrostatic speakers I can say they share a very similar sound. One may not be better than the other. It depends on the model of the speaker. Acoustat speakers can be very reliable, but you need to start with a good pair that have been well taken care of. I have seen a few where the glue is deteriorating and as a result you will get some buzzing and other issues. I owned the Acoustat Model 2 which is half the height and double the width of the 1+1. The panels are also angled within the frame. I would say that with Acoustat speakers, the biggest design issue is the transformer interface. You can say this about many other ESL speakers as well, but for me this was a big issue with the Model 2. Now, when I removed the interface and added the Acoustat direct driver servo amps this was a huge improvement. They were just as enjoyable as my Quad ESL with the servo amps. I have never owned Apogee, but always wanted to. From other owner experiences they do seem to have more issues and of course depending on the model, you may need to lock in to a certain type of amplification. If I were to get a set of Apogee I would probably just make the investment to get one of the pairs that is more amp friendly and have True Sound Works restore them. However, I have owned Analysis Audio ribbon planars and they are very similar in design to Apogee and much easier to drive. I owned two different pairs and found them to be very enjoyable. New they can be pretty pricey, but if you can locate a used pair you’ll find some great deals on them. I don’t want to dissuade you from the 1+1, they can usually be had a great prices and they are a true line array. If you get a good pair with the right amplification or better yet find the servo amps you will find them to be very enjoyable speakers. |
