@hilde45 , I feel that you are more or less settled and perhaps there is not much need in further comparisons for you. I had Atmasphere blocks in my system and Ralph was so kind to re repay the purchase (I returned the monos due to some technical reasons).
Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?
Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?
I'm currently trialing the NAD M23 (1st gen. Eigentakt-based), and I find it intriguing enough to want to understand it better — which means understanding the broader sonic landscape of class D. So I'm crowd-sourcing.
In a recent exchange, the estimable Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere Music Systems) made two comments that stopped me cold. For those who missed it, here's what he said:
"IME, class D amps vary in sound more than tube amps, which is to say, quite a lot."
"IMO there is a bigger difference between various class D amps than you hear between various tube amps. IOW just because you heard one class D amp says nothing about how the next one might sound."
Link: https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2885828
As I think through this more carefully, these are genuinely important claims. My own experience with tube amps confirms that they produce audibly distinct characters across topologies and designs. If Ralph is right and class D exceeds that range, then generalizing from one class D experience to another is even more hazardous than I assumed.
One specific question for Audiogon members:
If you have a Class D amp or have compared class D amplifiers, how would you describe their character(s)?
Here are some criteria I use:
- Frequency balance — Is the tonal response even across bass, mids, and treble, or does it favor certain regions?
- High-frequency texture — Are the highs extended and smooth, or edgy, grainy, and fatiguing?
- Bass definition — Is the low end tight and articulate, or loose and bloated?
- Midrange character — Does the midrange feel present and natural, or recessed and thin?
- Transient speed — Does the amp respond quickly to dynamic attacks, or does it sound sluggish and rounded?
- Dynamic range — Does it scale convincingly from quiet passages to loud ones, or compress the difference?
- Soundstage width and depth — Does it create a convincing three-dimensional image, or sound flat and narrow?
- Image specificity — Are instruments and voices placed precisely, or do they blur and wander?
- Background noise floor — Is the silence between notes actually silent, or is there grain, haze, or hash?
- Long-term listenability — After an extended session, do you want to keep listening, or has something been quietly fatiguing you?
If you can include relevant system context — room, speakers, preamp — please do. Those variables will help me interpret what the amp itself is contributing.
I'm less interested in rankings than in understanding what Ralph mentioned, namely the [vast] range of sonic signatures class D is capable of. Eigentakt, Hypex, Pascal, Purifi, GaN-based, etc. — all fair game.
Price is no constraint here — I'm interested in the full range of what's out there.
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Sounds good. In case it got somehow buried from before, the AGD mono blocks were really really great. My need is a bit special – might not even call it a need. But if I was concerned about heat or summer etc. and needed a different amp for that season – well, AGD is fantastic and I would certainly be moving ahead with a trail with Atmasphere amps. I might do that anyway, just because Ralph is that rare combination of world-class engineer plus a keen listener with a long appreciation of tube sound. That needs to remain in the forefront. |
@hilde45 - I think comparing Class D (Eigentakt v.1) to Pass Labs in a system optimized for the latter might cause misleading conclusions. Could it be that the Pass Labs are slightly colored -- more beautiful than reality -- and that the NAD was more neutral? That has been my impression from listening to both in my system, and it would make the Eigentakt amps sound wrong when compared directly to the Pass. For what it’s worth, when I used amps with the 1ET400A modules, I didn’t find them at all shouty. I respect Ralph K enormously. I agree with @kr4 that if the field of Class D amps is narrowed to the best and newest, the distinctions among them will be small, which is not to say none. As noted, vendors often use their own input buffers, and I tend to think those are the main source of variation among Class-D amps that use the same modules. Of course, vendors who develop their own modules and buffers (if any) will have their own distinctive sounds. I hope you get useful information from this thread. |
Not sure what to say. The system is not optimized for Pass Labs amp – it's just the system I have. One of my amps is Pass. The other is Quicksilver. A third is Dynaco ST-35. These are the amps I have formed opinions about. The NAD gets dropped in and nothing else changes. That's the experiment. Do the amps sound different – yes, and that's what I'm assessing. It's not that they sound "wrong" because I'm not looking for them to sound like the Pass. But they were shouty on my system. |
Possible what is described as “shouty” could also be called “edge”, which is a common audio term to describe sound in a certain high frequency range. That can be an attribute of the finest amps yet at the same time some ears may find it too much and others find it makes the music more exiting and engaging. It’s all good as long as we are not talking about distortion, which can happen very easily even in very good gear if not in good operating condition or even if simply involved in a bad system integration of components, for example. It’s just the way of the world that people hear and react differently to sound. Age alone can have a huge effect. Younger ears will tend to also be better ears “technically” hence more sensitive in ways older ears are not. We are fortunate to have more good quality choices than ever these days, at least when it comes to hifi gear. |
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