How do small woofers produce large bass?

I run my pro pioneers (dual 12s) with a dual 18 horn loaded pro sub...or i swap it with a 21 inch  sub. There is something about these large subs covering the low octaves, i probably won't be going under 18 inch subs hereafter. The crap coming out of things at axpona and the like..these boys have some things to learn.

The Tekton guy perhaps managed to word some of this...

https://youtu.be/4PIE1znQv2U?si=uNAviV8EcHfLp502

@phusis wrote

What I’ve found is that I prefer a single larger woofer vs. several smaller ones, however a comparison would have to factor in that a woofer of, say, 15" is typically a higher efficiency variant (you don’t see many 15" low eff. "Hi-Fi" woofers), and thus it’s likely used differently than an array of low fs woofers with all that implies sonically. 

As a general observation though I tend to find larger woofers (vs. several smaller) to be more tuneful, articulate and less conspicuous in the mix. Many may believe a 15" woofer to be this crazy beast that puts out loads of bass compared to a pair of 6.5 or 8" woofers, but the perceived outcome is actually quite different, I find. 

I agree with most of the post above.. The physical size of the driver matters to make more bass, in terms of deeper sounding

@deep_333 

better idea to lose bass extension below 80hz, get the sensitivity up to 100db

That's home theater speaker design like JTR. There is also a market preference for HI-FI speakers. Also if you speak into your phone and look at a spectrum analyzer app, you'll see your voice at 50Hz or below, which you can localize. 80Hz crossover is not good in a HT setup using a single sub in LFE because if the sub in back, dialog will come from there instead of the center speaker. That's the compromise with HT speakers if you want SPL. There's less of a compromise with capable full range speakers. They're capable of +105dB peak. Most people don't listen at an average above 80dB. Simply calibrating is painfully loud.

if you can actually put your main speakers now in the right spot for a low bass/distributed bass Geddes array...problem is those spots will be lousy spots for everything else a speaker has to do, imaging, soundstage and so on

That theory was also disproved with the measurement I posted. Also the speakers are toed 2' wide of MLP (middle of two outer seats), not at MLP as many theory suggest. 1' wide is the best imaging and soundstage for MLP, but not for the other seats. Another thing; the flat response is mainly a point of reference. Many prefer a v-curve for music.

@deep_333 wrote:

I run my pro pioneers (dual 12s) with a dual 18 horn loaded pro sub...or i swap it with a 21 inch  sub. There is something about these large subs covering the low octaves, i probably won't be going under 18 inch subs hereafter.

Is the 21" variant also horn-loaded? I also crave those larger woofers of higher efficiency, but the important aspect to me is the specific design in which they're implemented; for sub duties I prefer those larger drivers to be at least partially "hidden" and not direct radiating, as the latter seems to more readily expose the sense of a large woofer cone, not as much for giving the feeling of an effort being made as for having a "cone sound."

When used in horn-loaded or high order bandpass designs however where the woofer is more or less hidden the end result is a typically cleaner, less character-laden and more "the bass is simply there"-feeling with the variable being overall wallop/SPL and extension depending on the driver diameter, design direction and size. 

The crap coming out of things at axpona and the like..these boys have some things to learn.

Absolutely. They're usually bound by small size and still wanting to have their cake and eat it too (i.e.: extension from small size, with all that implies).  

The Tekton guy perhaps managed to word some of this...

https://youtu.be/4PIE1znQv2U?si=uNAviV8EcHfLp502

Indeed he does. Thanks for supplying the link. 

There are other designs and enclosures he does around that 21 inch driver. Here's an example. I guess you could tell him what you want. 

I assume  you've seen the regular one, which is the one i currently have.

@phusis wrote

Is the 21" variant also horn-loaded? I also crave those larger woofers of higher efficiency, but the important aspect to me is the specific design in which they're implemented; for sub duties I prefer those larger drivers to be at least partially "hidden" and not direct radiating, as the latter seems to more readily expose the sense of a large woofer cone, not as much for giving the feeling of an effort being made as for having a "cone sound."