I agree with most of the post above.. The physical size of the driver matters to make more bass, in terms of deeper sounding
How do small woofers produce large bass?
Hi All,
I am looking at loudspeakers... I currently own the Arendal 1723 THX Monitors. 2 8" woofers each. I listen to probably 80% home theater and 20% pure two-channel music of all sorts. I am contemplating upgrading the speakers, and there are a number that I am very interested in. The Arendals are killer for music and home theater. In fact crazy amazing at home theater. I have also 2 SVS SB-3000 subs.
But as we all know, wanting to upgrade. blah blah ad nauseum. :)
And most everything I’m looking at has 6.5" bass drivers, usually 2 per speaker. I am looking at the Acoustic Energy Corinium, the KEF R11 Meta, the Dali Opticon 8 MKII, and the PSB T600.
I have a fear that the bass will be plenty for two-channel music, but won’t have that bad-ass slam of the Arendal’s dual 8" drivers. So my question is sort of a scientific one or a physics one. I am baffled as to how the 6.5" drivers in all of these new speakers are going to produce home theater sized bass. I’ve watched every video, read every article about those 4 contenders (above) - and everything/everybody says essentially "no worries, the woofers are lighter and faster, and since there are two of them, they make a great deal of bass. I just think I’m not seeing the "science" or "physics" of that. Like how are these 6.5" drivers going to handle something incredibly powerful/dynamic (bomb blasts/gun shots/thunder/explosions etc etc??? I’m afraid I’ll be let down by something like the PSB T600’s or the KEF R11 Metas when head to head with the dual 8" drivers in my Arendals. I’m hoping people can assure me and/or run through the science.... thanks to all. Oh, and yes, I do cross over to my two subs at 60Hz.
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That's home theater speaker design like JTR. There is also a market preference for HI-FI speakers. Also if you speak into your phone and look at a spectrum analyzer app, you'll see your voice at 50Hz or below, which you can localize. 80Hz crossover is not good in a HT setup using a single sub in LFE because if the sub in back, dialog will come from there instead of the center speaker. That's the compromise with HT speakers if you want SPL. There's less of a compromise with capable full range speakers. They're capable of +105dB peak. Most people don't listen at an average above 80dB. Simply calibrating is painfully loud.
That theory was also disproved with the measurement I posted. Also the speakers are toed 2' wide of MLP (middle of two outer seats), not at MLP as many theory suggest. 1' wide is the best imaging and soundstage for MLP, but not for the other seats. Another thing; the flat response is mainly a point of reference. Many prefer a v-curve for music. |
@deep_333 wrote:
Is the 21" variant also horn-loaded? I also crave those larger woofers of higher efficiency, but the important aspect to me is the specific design in which they're implemented; for sub duties I prefer those larger drivers to be at least partially "hidden" and not direct radiating, as the latter seems to more readily expose the sense of a large woofer cone, not as much for giving the feeling of an effort being made as for having a "cone sound." When used in horn-loaded or high order bandpass designs however where the woofer is more or less hidden the end result is a typically cleaner, less character-laden and more "the bass is simply there"-feeling with the variable being overall wallop/SPL and extension depending on the driver diameter, design direction and size.
Absolutely. They're usually bound by small size and still wanting to have their cake and eat it too (i.e.: extension from small size, with all that implies).
Indeed he does. Thanks for supplying the link. |
There are other designs and enclosures he does around that 21 inch driver. Here's an example. I guess you could tell him what you want.
I assume you've seen the regular one, which is the one i currently have.
@phusis wrote
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@deep_333 wrote:
Oh, I know Mr. Ricci’s Othorns and the driver the design is built around, the B&C 21SW152. Great subs, arguably some of the best around within their frequency range. They are the ones I originally wanted a pair of in my speaker setup, but eventually opted for another tapped horn option with a smaller, 15" B&C woofer.
Classic ported design. What’s the tune of this? |
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