How do small woofers produce large bass?

No theoretical claims...i’ve moved subs around on wheels for 20 years and i have all kinds of measurements.

We agree on one thing though. I never said you needed expensive subs either!

I’ve always suggested it as active room treatment (with a positive of adding some bass to anemic sht speakers). A couple of cheap li’l subs kept in a couple of strategic spots will fix some modal hell that is close to impossible to fix, otherwise. If you see some of my posts in the past, i’ve even suggested a $199 sub called a verafi caldera.

But, a guy buying a 2000 dollar cable might be better served with a 100 dollar cable and a 2000 dollar sub instead.

As phusis hinted at in a previous post, and ime, it is a better idea to lose bass extension below 80hz, get the sensitivity up to 100db (can’t have both), and let subs in the correct spots handle the bass. No chaos in the cabinet from low bass extension, no chaos in the room, no compromise to other drivers sitting in the cabinet, high sensitivity and all its benefits with a reasonable size cabinet (not a refrigerator), lots of benefits....from going away from this "full range" poetry.

Of course, there is the argument, " Well, if i have full bass extension on my main speakers, they will act as quasi subs and become part of a Earl Geddes type of distributed array along with my other subs!",,,,Yeah, that’s fine if you can actually put your main speakers now in the right spot for a low bass/distributed bass Geddes array...problem is those spots will be lousy spots for everything else a speaker has to do, imaging, soundstage and so on.....

@bartsw  wrote

@deep_333  you’re still making theoretical claims without actually trying it yourself. I mentioned earlier everything. Floor standing speakers combined with subs give you the best coverage and performance. You don’t need to break a budget on subs relative to speakers.

@pcrhkr wrote:

As far as woofer size, the effective radiated area of 2 six inch woofers will be about the same as a 12" woofer.

No, dual 6" woofers only cover half the displacement of a 12" woofer. There’s a significant difference. 

My experience is that a larger woofer will give more slam, hit, kick, in a 12" woofer vs two 6". However, the two 6" will likely respond more quickly in music dynamics because there is less mass to control.

In this case a 12" woofer would first and foremost move more air, i.e.: twice of that produced by dual 6" woofers. The perceived difference between these two scenarios would depend on several factors, but certainly the 12" woofer must be expected to have more impact, albeit not necessarily how one would imagine it.

What I’ve found is that I prefer a single larger woofer vs. several smaller ones, however a comparison would have to factor in that a woofer of, say, 15" is typically a higher efficiency variant (you don’t see many 15" low eff. "Hi-Fi" woofers), and thus it’s likely used differently than an array of low fs woofers with all that implies sonically. 

As a general observation though I tend to find larger woofers (vs. several smaller) to be more tuneful, articulate and less conspicuous in the mix. Many may believe a 15" woofer to be this crazy beast that puts out loads of bass compared to a pair of 6.5 or 8" woofers, but the perceived outcome is actually quite different, I find. 

I run my pro pioneers (dual 12s) with a dual 18 horn loaded pro sub...or i swap it with a 21 inch  sub. There is something about these large subs covering the low octaves, i probably won't be going under 18 inch subs hereafter. The crap coming out of things at axpona and the like..these boys have some things to learn.

The Tekton guy perhaps managed to word some of this...

https://youtu.be/4PIE1znQv2U?si=uNAviV8EcHfLp502

@phusis wrote

What I’ve found is that I prefer a single larger woofer vs. several smaller ones, however a comparison would have to factor in that a woofer of, say, 15" is typically a higher efficiency variant (you don’t see many 15" low eff. "Hi-Fi" woofers), and thus it’s likely used differently than an array of low fs woofers with all that implies sonically. 

As a general observation though I tend to find larger woofers (vs. several smaller) to be more tuneful, articulate and less conspicuous in the mix. Many may believe a 15" woofer to be this crazy beast that puts out loads of bass compared to a pair of 6.5 or 8" woofers, but the perceived outcome is actually quite different, I find. 

I agree with most of the post above.. The physical size of the driver matters to make more bass, in terms of deeper sounding

@deep_333 

better idea to lose bass extension below 80hz, get the sensitivity up to 100db

That's home theater speaker design like JTR. There is also a market preference for HI-FI speakers. Also if you speak into your phone and look at a spectrum analyzer app, you'll see your voice at 50Hz or below, which you can localize. 80Hz crossover is not good in a HT setup using a single sub in LFE because if the sub in back, dialog will come from there instead of the center speaker. That's the compromise with HT speakers if you want SPL. There's less of a compromise with capable full range speakers. They're capable of +105dB peak. Most people don't listen at an average above 80dB. Simply calibrating is painfully loud.

if you can actually put your main speakers now in the right spot for a low bass/distributed bass Geddes array...problem is those spots will be lousy spots for everything else a speaker has to do, imaging, soundstage and so on

That theory was also disproved with the measurement I posted. Also the speakers are toed 2' wide of MLP (middle of two outer seats), not at MLP as many theory suggest. 1' wide is the best imaging and soundstage for MLP, but not for the other seats. Another thing; the flat response is mainly a point of reference. Many prefer a v-curve for music.