User feedback on subs


While it’s not a path I want to go down, it turns out I need some subs for my cabin system. After trying lots of positions with little success, and after having discussions with people who’s experience and knowledge I respect, I’ve concluded it’s the only way for me to deal with some serious modes in an odd shaped room and to produce adequate bass in the large volume. Sigh.

Subs are relatively unfamiliar territory for me. Based on the conversations noted, I am leaning toward sealed subs - no ports/passive radiators -  to better blend with my main speakers. 

While I’m leaning toward REL #31s, also under consideration are Sonus Faber Gravis VI, Perlisten D series, and Martin Logan Balanced Force (now Depth?). All are subs I can get from dealers in my home state. The SF dealer also carries Paradigm but he hasn’t suggested any of those models - even their reference ones. While available at the same dealer who can provide Perlisten, I’ve ruled out JL Audio for reasons I’d rather not discuss here.

The SF have a high level connection very similar to REL - intuitively my preferred connection. SF and Perlisten (I’m unsure about ML) have an app which assists in setup though I’ve been reviewing enough setup routines that I “think” I’ll get better results with a manual process. 

The Perlistens are completely unfamiliar though appear well designed and solidly built. However, they do not have a high level connection which means I’d have to send my preamp feed to them and output from there to the amps. I have what I think is a very nice sounding preamp and I do not want to harm that purity. Perhaps my worry is misplaced. I have the same concern with the ML. 

All the subs under consideration can do what I need. But they are obviously not all equal. The REL is the easy (safe?) choice, though significantly more expensive than the others. The Gravis can be ordered to match the finish on my main speakers - not important, but nice to have. 

So - given the above, any user feedback on the subs I’m considering?  I welcome pros and cons.

Importantly, auditioning them in system is not possible as that location is a 4 hour drive each way from any of the dealers. So, I want to get it right. 

TIA

mgrif104

@jc4659 

That’s a wonderful offer! Unfortunately, I no longer have a way to play CDs up there. I’m streaming, vinyl and NAS. Fortunately, i was able to get some sense of all this after finding test tones on Qobuz. 50 hz down is problematic. Above 60 - no problem. A test CD certainly would have made it easier though. 

@deep_333 

Noted on the model being directionally correct. Thank you for the additional explanatory detail.

It does give me some starting points. I will note that my proof of concept test with my old small sub worked best in the current speaker configuration (along the 23’ side wall) with the sub just to the side of the mains and in relative phase alignment. That gave me hope that it may not be too difficult to achieve good results with two of them positioned similarly. But, there may be even better positions for two so I’ll refer to your model when I get them up there. That may take a couple of weeks.

Still looking for user feedback on Perlisten and/or SF Gravis. REL remains the easy and most likely choice. 

As a side note - I understand why many suggest DSP as necessary or at least desirable - particularly when dealing with complexities of integration, phase and equalization of subs to large full range speakers. My suspicion is you’re correct - this might be a great application for DSP. But, I also tried using DSP (via DIRAC) in a different system and room several years ago as I wanted to see what might be achieved. The results of that test scared me away from DSP. Perhaps it was user error but I found the correction so harmful as to be unlistenable. Hence my skepticism and bias in favor of RELs approach. But, I’m still learning here so I welcome the input.

The reality is real world room acoustics is still partly a black art - especially in complex spaces so beware those who speak in absolutes.. this thread is a good learning opportunity for us all. Again best in music to you !!!

jim

 

I did not. I was planning on buying new and leaning heavily toward #31s, but yeah - that is tempting. 

And, they’re about 90 minutes away from the cabin too. 

I have some chewing to do.

Thanks for the link!

can't speak to the SF, but i've heard the Perlisten...unique sub, very clean bass (low distortion) and note to note distinction, very easy to integrate. The dude wouldn't let me look inside (even though i said i'd pay the dude if i broke anything!), but, it seems like some chunk of r&d went into the driver, amp, dsp, etc in it. It is about as clinical as a sub ever got, ime.

However....would a super clean sub like that sound very... "real" to you?...that's up to you, only you can make that decision (a bit of a controversial topic).

You can also get closer to that level of 'clean' with one of the "dual-opposed" subs from Rythmik without digging deeper into the piggybank. 

 

@mgrif104  wrote

Still looking for user feedback on Perlisten and/or SF Gravis. REL remains the easy and most likely choice.