Needed: Honest Advice on high-end amps- either mono or stereo


I'm perplexed by the offering of high end amps. I have heard some really expensive amps- ARC 300m, D'Agostino, Burmeister,  the 1200w Macs- all impressive but....

In your HONEST opinion- are the THAT good? 

For the money (Let's pretend you and I  can afford them- may of us can) are they transformative? Exceptional? WAYYY better than a lesser mortals out there? 

Forget economic proportionality- most of us are wealthy. We can pay to play. My question is: are they EXCEPTIONAL or just moderately better for much more money? 

This is an honest question seeking thoughtful answers..... 

 

 

yesiam_a_pirate

The only true high end amps I've heard in recent decades are the Convergent tube amps, and yes, on a top notch system they really do make a difference.  Whether or not they're worth it I can't say, because I'd be very hard pressed to justify that much money.  Diminishing returns are in full play, but are also audible.  It is a system, and it needs to all be at a similar level to maximize the overall performance.

I'd guess I'm getting roughly 90% of the performance for a fraction of the cost with some heavily modified Dyna/VTA amps in my system, but the difference is notable when I go and hear the CATs.  If I stay away, and just listen to my rig, I'm perfectly content! wink

Diminishing returns is a real thing, however every step up in quality is very rewarding and typically worth the initial investment.  Notice I said quality, not price - I've heard many expensive components which were good but not groundbreaking.  When you hear something that changes your experience it's difficult to forget about - so be careful what you listen to!! :)

@ghdprentice 

 Honest question, what do you mean by that statement? Now, if you’re going for the Sound, spectacular the imaging from ceiling to floor off onto the side walls. Not natural in musical, but absolutely incredible. Then the Burmeister Boulder and some of those other brands are for you. I've been in the music business, for a few decades that's what I did to pay the bills. What I've experienced, wether acoustic or amplified, we've sought for filling the room, and it's always been preferable for a "live" sound pressure level. Please explain.

   Thanks RWR.

 

 

OP  I’m perplexed by the offering of high end amps. Needed: Honest Advice

I’ll get bombs by this. Your ears are correct. All current new hi-end equipment are a joke. All they are made by who can’t hear and can’t make the right sound. People who can hear run away from hi-fi audio.

The world’s best microphones are from 1950’s. The world’s best sound electronic guitars are from 1950’s. Same for audio tubes. People who made those best sounding electronics are dead now without transferring their knowledge to their students. 60~90 years old good sound mics are broken now and all new mics sound so bad that we must hear noisy recording and broadcasting always.

Alex/Wavetouch audio

Very broadly speaking in the high end there are a couple of takes on sonic presentation. The first is fidelity to the music. Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, VAC, Sonus Faber. Their empirical rule is real music... a careful and complete rendition of reality with the details in proportion to the real thing. So, for instance if you sit in a symphony hall and first listen to the silence then the most quiet start of a violin... through a full crescendo... the gestalt is accurately presented. I tuned my ears partially through having 7th row center seats a the symphony for over ten years.. 

Alternatively lots of system are designed around sounding good. improving imaging and bass beyond what is real. So, details are often presented much more promenently than they are in real life. Kick drums too forceful. The imaging presented in Wilson / Magico, Bermeister, Rowland are often incredible... with a piccolo suspending in three dimensional space... but this is not real.. not like real music. Sounds incredible. I have been blown away by the ceiling to floor wall to wall (forward of front wall) 3D sound staging. Amazing, but it doesn’t sound like the real thing. the gestalt is wrong, proportions wrong. Often these system are not emotionally connective as well. They are intellectually interesting but lack the deep emotional  connection that good midrange bloom and great rhythm and pace will give. 

That is one of the dichotomies. Components and systems are on continuums.