2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

it is very true @dover that little things can make an enormous difference.  and lets face it, one can do better than the crucible/tape deal.  i hate you to think i haven't been optimising.  i have just done a suite of things including cable management (sounds dull, exciting results) and it feels like the sound has come a very long way with new motor.  maybe i should bite the bullet and use the Verdier housing for my new motor?

if anything though the fact that a bodge job motor can have the verdier soaring like this tells me the motor is critical and on balance i reckon someone else is probably on top of it in ways i could only dream of.  as u say, if i go sota, i will wonder.  i like what thom makris seems to value and his push for virtual rim drive with mylar belt.

i hear you about acoustical systems but the tonearm pods suit it height wise.  i'd need to go and get la platine arm mounts and they are not thick on the ground this time of year!  it is a very "dead" arrangement the aluminium, the black thing and then the copper. are you saying this is not a good thing?  it is very adhoc i suppose so why should the results be ideal.  i must admit though that i think the copper mat is good.  i quite like it.  i like all that mass too.

right now i am enjoying it as i think previously the fuze was crook.  now the new AC motor is head and shoulders better than the DC verdier, which in comparison sounds feeble and broken.  the AC motor is so fulsome in its delivery across the whole spectrum.  it feels like a hifi you could use at a gallery to play definitive versions of songs on.  plus it is a tonne of fun.

Ok I got rid of the copper mat and it’s a million times better. Less thick. Less concocted. More delicate detail and texture. Thanks @dover !

@dover your prescience is noted.  whilst i am thrilled to be rid of the copper (which sort of bloats the big stuff and kills the tiny stuff - good for some systems but not for mine at this stage i think) - i was then this morning struck by the sound of the 2 inch thick AS black stuff atop the verdier aluminium platter.  i can hear a beautiful and distinct note but then i can also hear its shadow bouncing around.  i think as you predict i get reflection off of the aluminium and the net result is slightly grey, amusical and blurry.

so now to the mats!

first i tried the vertere mat which is supposed to insulate/absorb/be dead.  yes better than nothing but not good.  i hate how dead it is.

second i tried a spec platter.  this is a very good platter.  it sounds musical at least. i think i would prefer none though.

i appreciate your comments, especially the ones about the "train" that one has to choose to get off as it never arrives at a destination.  i hear you.

i think i will get one of my tonearm mounts shortened so that i can give the plain verdier platter a try.  but on other hand the AS platter has a void under it.  this is supposed to be filled with silicon oil.  perhaps this would stop the sound bouncing off etc?

There are similarities within this Thread that relates to much of what I involved myself with for many many years.

The main differences being, my own endeavours started with ID TT's and the Garrard 401, this extended to Lenco GL 75's and then into Japanese Vintage DD TT's.

On the current used DD TT following a redesign for the Speed Control and overhaul of the Platter Spindle Bearing.

The subsequent addition that was proven to be substantial as an means to eke out betterment, was utilising Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board Material to be the substitute material for critical support roles for the TT.

Replacing any of the Plinth options have across a group of individuals all been discovered to be bettered when a Panzerholz or Permali Wood Board has been the material used as the alternate to other options.

Such a material does need to be made known to anybody who has the desire to put in place optimised interfaces for the TT's mechanical performance.

Acrylic Materials have a Damping Factor of 0.04 whereas Panzerholz and other Boards manufactured to similar Spec' has a Damping Factor of 0.750 when tested as a Plinth Size Board at 25mm Thickness.    

@mr_gray 

I have great confidence in your endeavours, because your early descriptions of what you were hearing and the unique qualities of the Verdier were exactly as I experienced when I had the Verdier. I’m pretty sure our hearing is similar.

I have not heard the AS mods - but my point was to try the original platter so you understand what the AS is doing. If you do, retry the copper mat directly on the aluminium platter, as I mentioned this combination of metals will provide bimetallic damping. Also would pay to try any other mats/clamps you have lying around.

the AS platter has a void under it.  this is supposed to be filled with silicon oil.  

that’s very interesting - it would probably serve as an energy dump, but the problems with lossy dampening materials and energy dumps like that they tend to store unwanted energy and then at some point it comes back out, and smears the sound. What you really want with unwanted energy in a turntable system is to get rid of it, in the case of my reference TT most of it is dealt with at an atomic level ( my TT uses superplastic zinc alloy as a plinth, any disturbances from 10-100hz at room temperature dissipate within the plinth material via grain sliding at a molecular level ). Any other unwanted energy needs to be dumped to ground.

Might be worth trying the silicon if that’s what Dietrich intended but I think the record interface to acrylic/copper/graphite whatever will probably have more impact in one way or another directly on the sound as well as getting motor/TT mounted as stable as you can get it - keep things as simple as possible.