2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

@mr_gray 

@dover do u reckon the SOTA motor and speed control unit would be worth having a crack at?  third price of galibier and ac sort of floats my boat.

i think macro timing with the AC motor is fabulous and i love i can play records and don’t have to wear my shaknspin in a holstre anymore.  but i think its less articulate in crucial moments (start of the note) than the DC motor sometimes and this makes it less musically impressive sometimes.  

Also somewhere you mentioned I think a woody sound ???

I would caution you that you can end up on a path that never satisfies.

From the photos of your set up my advice would be to tidy up what you have first. In my view and from my experiences with a multitude of top end TT’s there are changes I would make to your set up -

1. I believe that both the motor and platter/arm should be on the same platform, in other words put both motor and TT on 1 Well float.

2. Before you invest in another platform get a proper rigid TT stand. You want to ground the TT to drain energy.

3. The motor you are running with the LDA power supply should be rigidly mounted, this will change the sound/performance substantially - it should be a vast improvement, at worst it might highlight issues or failings - but you need to find out before you decide to throw more money at another motor.

4. With regard to the Acoustical Solutions mods - the huge polymer platter sitting on the original platter - personally I think you should remove it and find out whether it is doing more harm than good. The Verdier, if you are running with no ball, then the platter is well isolated from ground, and at worst when you combine 2 significantly different materials ( aluminium/plastic ) then a significant portion of any energy passing though that joint actually gets reflected backwards - so energy from the cartridge record interface will get reflected back to the cartridge and muddy the sound.

On my Verdier I used a mat that was a mix of barium lead and acrylic - about 7mm thick. Copper mats can dampen aluminium platters significantly - it’s called bimetallic damping - where 2 metals close in propagation speed can combine to kill resonance very effectively.

fyi I used most of the time a couple of FR64S on my Verdier ( primarily because I had more than one and I could do direct comparisons with my other TT’s using identical arms/cartridges - but I also own many other arms.

With regards to the Sota vs Gallibrier I can’t answer that because I haven’t heard either. My original suggestion was to try a Garrard motor with the LDA because it has a lot more power - but that would be experimental - I never tried it. Be aware that the Garrard motors use an eddy brake to load the motor so that it produces more torque.  Because of the cost of the Sota system I would probably try that first. but then you will always wonder what the Gallibrier might do. You need to get off the train at some stage though and just enjoy what you have - personally I would focus on achieving a musical enjoyable sound first - tidy up what you have now - there is more performance there without spending any more - I’m sure.

it is very true @dover that little things can make an enormous difference.  and lets face it, one can do better than the crucible/tape deal.  i hate you to think i haven't been optimising.  i have just done a suite of things including cable management (sounds dull, exciting results) and it feels like the sound has come a very long way with new motor.  maybe i should bite the bullet and use the Verdier housing for my new motor?

if anything though the fact that a bodge job motor can have the verdier soaring like this tells me the motor is critical and on balance i reckon someone else is probably on top of it in ways i could only dream of.  as u say, if i go sota, i will wonder.  i like what thom makris seems to value and his push for virtual rim drive with mylar belt.

i hear you about acoustical systems but the tonearm pods suit it height wise.  i'd need to go and get la platine arm mounts and they are not thick on the ground this time of year!  it is a very "dead" arrangement the aluminium, the black thing and then the copper. are you saying this is not a good thing?  it is very adhoc i suppose so why should the results be ideal.  i must admit though that i think the copper mat is good.  i quite like it.  i like all that mass too.

right now i am enjoying it as i think previously the fuze was crook.  now the new AC motor is head and shoulders better than the DC verdier, which in comparison sounds feeble and broken.  the AC motor is so fulsome in its delivery across the whole spectrum.  it feels like a hifi you could use at a gallery to play definitive versions of songs on.  plus it is a tonne of fun.

Ok I got rid of the copper mat and it’s a million times better. Less thick. Less concocted. More delicate detail and texture. Thanks @dover !

@dover your prescience is noted.  whilst i am thrilled to be rid of the copper (which sort of bloats the big stuff and kills the tiny stuff - good for some systems but not for mine at this stage i think) - i was then this morning struck by the sound of the 2 inch thick AS black stuff atop the verdier aluminium platter.  i can hear a beautiful and distinct note but then i can also hear its shadow bouncing around.  i think as you predict i get reflection off of the aluminium and the net result is slightly grey, amusical and blurry.

so now to the mats!

first i tried the vertere mat which is supposed to insulate/absorb/be dead.  yes better than nothing but not good.  i hate how dead it is.

second i tried a spec platter.  this is a very good platter.  it sounds musical at least. i think i would prefer none though.

i appreciate your comments, especially the ones about the "train" that one has to choose to get off as it never arrives at a destination.  i hear you.

i think i will get one of my tonearm mounts shortened so that i can give the plain verdier platter a try.  but on other hand the AS platter has a void under it.  this is supposed to be filled with silicon oil.  perhaps this would stop the sound bouncing off etc?

There are similarities within this Thread that relates to much of what I involved myself with for many many years.

The main differences being, my own endeavours started with ID TT's and the Garrard 401, this extended to Lenco GL 75's and then into Japanese Vintage DD TT's.

On the current used DD TT following a redesign for the Speed Control and overhaul of the Platter Spindle Bearing.

The subsequent addition that was proven to be substantial as an means to eke out betterment, was utilising Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board Material to be the substitute material for critical support roles for the TT.

Replacing any of the Plinth options have across a group of individuals all been discovered to be bettered when a Panzerholz or Permali Wood Board has been the material used as the alternate to other options.

Such a material does need to be made known to anybody who has the desire to put in place optimised interfaces for the TT's mechanical performance.

Acrylic Materials have a Damping Factor of 0.04 whereas Panzerholz and other Boards manufactured to similar Spec' has a Damping Factor of 0.750 when tested as a Plinth Size Board at 25mm Thickness.