Vandersteen Treo vs 3A Sig as upgrade

I just recently purchased a pair of Vandy Treo CT's and in the process of breaking them in. I have about 100 hours on them. Right out of the box with no break in and less than proper set up, they did sound a little hard and harsh in the upper mids. But as I've been getting them broke in and with proper set-up from Richard Vandersteen the sound has improved significantly. Back tilt and toe-in seem to be extremely important to these speakers. With the correct placement and tilt, along with more break in time they are improving each day. I found these speakers not very forgiving toward mediocre recordings. If the recording has a significant amount of upper midrange hash you will hear it with the Treos. These speakers will not hide or sugar coat a poor recording. When the record is of good quality and lacks some of the over processing used now a days, I get some of the best sound I ever heard from my system. I have listened to 3A sigs, but did not like their lack of midrange resolution and dynamics. In fairness to the 3A's, this was a few years back and may not be current production. For reference, I'm using a Rogue Pharaoh integrated hybrid amp. Cambridge 851-C cd player, Well-Tempered Labs Amadeus Mk. II turntable, Soundsmith cartridge. Using MIT speaker cable for now, but my dealer says I should get these out of my system as soon as possible. Room is 15 1/2 feet long, 11 1/2 feet wide, vaulted ceiling with a balance of absorbing and reflecting surfaces. Hope this might be of some help to the OP. Cheers!

Mr m -

Thank you for the thoughtful and even handed review. Well done! Let us know how the bass breaks in.

OK Wlutke you might want to PM Ctsooner22, who owns the Treos or check past threads IF you want to get further insight from owner's of these speakers, some may not be posting or viewing. I do think you are being somewhat dismissive of a dealer that is highly regarded for his set-up acumen by owner's of Vandersteen speakers and you just MIGHT want to listen to him along with hearing from owners. There are actually some manufacturers and dealers that really do want to help as well as offer sound advice along with promoting their business, nothing wrong with that. It seems that you didn't have a really good experience with your audition to me, a less than helpful/knowledgable dealer maybe that couldn't answer questions to your satisfaction at the time? Or did you ask him?

CT here. Yes, I own and LOVE my Treo's. I have the ceramic tweeter and not even the CT version (much smoother and detailed).

First off, I use Johnny Rutan and ONLY Johnny Rutan when making decisions. I drive 3 hours to his place to get my gear. I've bought few items used from close friends whom I trust or from the internet. Johnny StiLL takes the time to help me out in decisions and I feel guilty not purchasing from him, lmao....He's THAT good and I've dealt with the top dealers in the world since 1969. That's for the OP who doesn't know me from Adam.

As for the Treo's...please come back and post what your system is and the set up as Johnny has asked. He is offering you his FREE advise, because he gives a darn. BTW, he sells Proacs, B&W's and many other speakers so he gets it.

My room can be a bit hot and the bass can be flabby if not set up properly. I have the Ayre AX 5 Twenty, but ran the Treo's originally with the Ayre AX7e. I have a Basis TT set up with a Benz MC cart and Rhea phono stage. I use the Empirical Audio OSDE/SE fully loaded for digital and it's served through a Mac Mini with a separate linear power supply that was hot rodded from the owner of Empirical Audio for his shows. I run it all through a Synergistic Research Power Cell 10 MK II Tesla power cord.

The room is a 15X20 loft with a 43" wall behind my system. I'm more sensitive to grating highs than most are. I don't like most speakers that get great marks or are very expensive. I also hear extension and need that in a system. I also need deep and tuneful bass. I hate flabby bass and will trade quantity for quality any day of the week. I also need them to disappear.

I was a Proac guy for years and dealt with a tilted top end but they disappeared and had tight and low bass. The Treo's are in a different league from any speaker I've heard under 10k. I only have the ceramic tweeters and fed decent material they are natural. Listen to piano properly recorded and you hear it in your room. I don't hear the speakers and most others who listen say the same thing. Bass is fairly deep (bass is the most expensive part of things and I have a system that delivers it in spades). Once I upgrade the amp, my speakers just went along for the ride. They just keep rising to the occasion. I personally don't like digital. I have a ton and play high rez only for now, but when you put on the Basis TT, the system just relaxes and you get to fall in love with it all over again.

I no way have I ever heard the Treo's or any of the Vandy speakers sound like you say. The 3a Sigs bass is deeper than the Treo's, but I doubt you even heard music that was recorded that low unless they had you listen to pipe organ music. The Treo's bass is much better quality and that's why they cost so much more (remember I said bass is where the cost of most systems is). The Treo's go pretty darn low though. I've heard pipe organ music that probably is going around 30 Hz possibly and the sound was there. Furniture was vibrating due to the bass but you heard every note separately. They also play complex music extremely well. When you are listening to voices and tricky guitar along with thumping bass, it's clear. There isn't any congestion due to the design of the speaker. There are no extra waves of music smearing what you hear. Most folks need to listen to these speakers a few times to fully understand the emotion they are conveying, because they are used to listening to hi fi speakers that are often tipped up a db or two. Heck it's a known fact that many of the major name speaker designers do this. I even read this in a review of a well known high end speaker when browsing yesterday.

Since you took the time to post, please let use all know the answers to Johnny's questions so that you can get some professional help and be happy with your purchase. Heck, even Johnny's system gets moved a bit without him knowing. Some demo's aren't perfect and he'll figure it out and fix it. Always simple fixes too, but even not set up perfectly, they sound great and I've never heard them hot, but I've also never fed them digital that often times is searing hot. JMHO...feel free to PM me if you want to talk about this on the phone. Always open. Let's get you set up and happy.

Ctsooner -

I hear you. I agree that set up and room are major players. HOWEVER, I prefer to keep this thread about the Treos, not my particular situation, and I have made that quite clear. I enjoy reading other's comments and experiences considering the Treos in THEIR situation - as do other readers, or at least I would hope so. I would list my system here but somebody would ,for sure, take the ball and run with it, insisting that my set up was in dire need of an overhaul. It is not. Look up my old posts if you're curious. It's listed there.