Avantgarde UNO set-up tips needed

I am happy to report that I have decided to keep the UNOs. The MicroBes
and the REL are up for sell already.

However, a lot has happened since my last post. Using the settings listed in
the opening post (9 for crossover and 5.5 for sub level) I have started to
just listen to music. The plan was to listen as many CDs as possible.
However, I have quickly realized that the system was sounding
good/decent only with audiophile recordings. Most other discs sounded
very thing and fatigue (bass while strong and good at times was missing in
most songs). After hearing this, I have installed back my MicroBe - REL
combo, only to hear how boxy they sound. (Though compare to the UNOs,
the MicroBe - REL combo had a much more balanced sound overall). The
situation was desperate to say the list.

Luckily, I have remember Arthur's advice about the crossover and
subwoofer volume settings, and I have started playing with them again. The
current settings are 4 for the crossover and just below 5 for the subwoofer.
The sound is very similar to what I remember hearing a few year back when
I have listen to the UNO - Accuphase combo I have told you about. That is,
very quick, dynamic and detailed sound with full midrange and not at all
fatigue.

(Somehow after reading the Avantgarde manual, I got the idea that I should
start with a high value for the crossover setting and gradually move down.
Thus, I have started with the maximum value, i.e.11. Unfortunately,
because, as reported, for settings below 9 there was a clear difference in
loudness between the high and low double bass strings - which I could not
correct by adjusting the subwoofer level - I have never used settings below
6 for the crossover. Thanks a lot Arthur for pointing out this crucial detail.)

Regarding your suggestions to try a tube amp, I certainly have nothing
against it. I'll keep the Accuphase for now and let the system settle in, but I
will ask the dealer who a few years back has demoed for me the Accuphase
- UNO combo to lend me some tube amps (he carries 47 Labs, Audio Note,
Manley and a few others). If the tubes sound that much better than my
Accuphase pre-power rig then I'll go with tubes. My only requirement,
beside good sound, is a balanced knob which I often used while working at
my desk (the desk is not situated between the speakers).

Arthur, regarding listening above 80 dB, my ears are more sensitive to
prolong listen session because of my drumming. It has nothing to do with
an unbalanced sound spectrum. I have also asked my wife, who is rather
sensitive to such anomalies, to come and listen to the UNOs and she had
absolutely no complains.

Finally, Whart and Arthur, I would like to thank you again for your very
helpful replies. Most likely I would have returned the UNOs if not for you
very helpful advices about toe in and crossover settings.

Best wishes,
Paul

Hi Paul,

What fine speakers you have!! I scanned this thread and did not see mention of Jim Smith's wise advice on setting the crossover and woofer level. I apologize ahead of time if I missed such mention and am repeating something already mentioned.

I owned Duos for a number of years and agree with other posters that Jim Smith is the man for AG setup. Per Jim, and counterintuitive to expectations, the best way to get the woofer adjustments right is to make these adjustments while listening to the midrange while playing vocals, typically female vocals. I used this approach and it was effective. Using music with bass content in my experience results in incorrect settings leading to endless tweaking of the woofer.

The following provides some detail on this topic. Likely I found this in a previous thread on Audiogon. If you search on Duos or possibly Avantgarde (as I recall you'll find more info searching on Duos) there will be lots of discussions on this topic and on other aspects of AG setup. Have fun and enjoy your lovely speakers.

--From jim smith 10/2000. So often, when I've heard of a system where the subs (217, 225, whatever) just didn't integrate well with the midrange horns, here's what I found - the sub crossover point was set too low. I think the owner thought cutting the woofer out at a lower frequency would somehow make the system sound "faster." In fact, this left a bit of a hole in the response. In order to balance the levels now, the owner (or dealer, or exhibitor) would then raise the sub levels a bit. So we were left with a sub that obviously did not blend smoothly. The bass did make its own, somewhat unrelated sound.

A technique that I recommend is to position the speakers and the listening seat for the smoothest overall bass. Then, I find using female voice is a geat tool. If the voice sounds too chesty, the crossover may be a tad too high, but often it's that the bass is too high. Go too far the other way, and the voice is disembodied, lacking in "thereness."

Feel free to make very fine - almost imperceptible visually - level and/or crossover adjustments. The click stops are simply reference points - the controls are infinite. When you get female voices right, usually it'll mean you're through tweaking levels. Setting the bass level with bass information means you're forever feeling the urge to readjust the bass according to the sound of that source.

Finally, a final technique is listening to the sound of a wooden drumstick striking cymbals in a drum set. This is the finest bass level setting, after doing all I can with voice.

--Someone added:
I found 'Baltimore' on Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth album to perfectly illustrate what you (jim smith) mean. Its a very close miked recording. Set the x-over one notch too low and you'll notice marked sibilance and edginess to his voice. In the correct position the sound is beautifully natural. Similarly, turning up the bass from too lean adds presence to the point Lovett is truly in the room but one step too far and his voice begins to lose presence and become chesty. The reason this particular track is so good is the distinct contrast between the right and wrong positions, rather like focussing Leica binoculars.

--I think Jim wrote this:
The BEST way to adjust the bass is listen to the midrange (unless you have a RTA analyzer and trust it). Put on one of your favorite vocalists or a recording of an instrument you are familiar with and adjust the bass till you get just the right amount of warmth. It might take a few hours or days to get it *right* but there should be a definite area of adjustment where the instument or voice sounds whole and cohesive with good recordings. Find that spot and it should all come together.

Good stuff there, Tubes 108! Makes sense too, since you are treating the sound of the woofer as part of the midrange, rather than a disconnected device. Paul will be rocking soon enough. The only thing he has to do is invite Jim to his house. Me, I'd come over too, since I love Amsterdam. :)

Tubes108, thanks for the very useful information. I am fully aware of what
you are saying. I use Norah Jones' "Cold cold hear" song (track 3 on the album
"Come away with me") when setting up speakers. First, I make a loop with my
CD player and play only the first measure of the double bass intro. While
having this loop going I move the speakers around the room looking for the
place where all notes sound equally loud. (I've moved the UNOs, my drum kit
and furniture, so the UNOS were firing agains each of the 4 walls.) After that, I
play the whole song and adjust further the crossover and level of the
subwoofer so I do not hear any sibilances in her voice. It is rather easy to
make Norah's voice thing and edgy. For the time being I am very happy with
the sound. I am sure I will tune further the crossover and sub level settings.
So, far I went only form click to click on the adjusting knobs. It is good to
know that I can go in smaller steps. I will report back as things progress.

Whart, I am rocking already! Yesterday morning I made the mistake to go into
my music room to listen a song or two before going to work, I ended up
taking the whole day off. :) Regarding Amsterdam, if any of you are heading
this way just pm me. I've be happy to have you for an audition.

Thanks again guys! I will keep you posted.
Paul

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Although I have watched this thread (since the first post) with interest, I have never heard from Nvp, which of course is perfectly fine.

Glad to hear that his system is coming around to him.

Best,

Jim Smith

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