Avantgarde UNO set-up tips needed

First, I should thank you all for the thoughtful replies. Whart and Arthur
thanks for taking the time to write such long posts. Whart, you have even read
my past comments on my virtual system threads. Thank you very much!

I will start by saying that after following Whart's advices things have improved
quite a bit. I am already very happy with the sound I am getting from the
UNOs! The most important thing I did was to toe-in the UNOs even more than
they were before. Now the "shooting" direction of the horns
intersects in front of me – a meter or so. (Initially, I have followed the
directions in the Avantgarde manual and made almost an equilateral triangle
between speakers and my listening chair, with the horns "shooting" directly at
me. As mentioned, in this configuration some instruments, e.g. double bass
and drums, had a much larger size than in reality. To correct this, I have
played quit a bit with the toe-in, unfortunately in the opposite direction - that
was my feeling after looking at the dispersion drawings in the Avantgarde
manual.) I have also moved my rack with electronics so now it does not sit
between the speakers anymore.

Regarding my electronics, my experience is the Accuphase electronics work
very well with Avantgarde speakers. It is certainly not an uncommon
combination here (in Europe). A few year back I went to an Avantgarde show
organized by a dutch dealer. He was using Audio Note electronics, but when I
told him I have an Accuphase class A integrate at home, he has immediately
switched the AN electronics with Accuphase without any fear of compromising
his demonstration. He knew it is a good combination, and indeed it was - I
had a wonderful audition.

Accuphase class A integrated amps and power amps play very well music even
when using 1 watt or less so. My "problem", however, is that I
have changed all my electronics in the last month. This has screwed up quite
a bit my reference sound. I moved from an Accuphase class A integrated to
separates, i.e. C-2410 pre-amp and an A-45 power amp (45 Class A watts
into 8 ohms). I have even changed my cd player to a much more expensive
sacd (also Accuphase). These changes brought about a much blacker
background and also a much faster and detailed sound - this with my old
speakers (Micro Be + REF Stentor 3). The UNOs made these things even more
apparent. It is not difficult to imagine that a "slower" and
"fatter" sound can at first sound better balanced.

On top of all these changes, I have spent two days measuring the sound
response of my room with the UNOs in it looking for the position that gives
me the best bass response. As some of you know, one has to crack up a bit
the volume to get a good signal for the microphone. Listening for two days at
80 - 90 dBs for hours is tiring for one's ears. Consequently, the last
statements made in the end of my initial post were not entirely accurate. That
is, after taking a listening break of two days (but letting the music play all this
time) the system sounds very nice and very well balanced - also when played
at 60 - 70 dB, which is the level of most of my listening sessions. (I use a
Radio Shack digital level meter - C weighting.)

I still have a week (till next Thursday) to decide whether or not I will keep the
UNOs, but I am already 95% sure I will. As most of you have mentioned,
further improvements can be achieved when playing with speaker cables,
connections and power cords. Also, like Arthur was pointing out, burning in
the speakers (my electronics are probably also not fully burned in yet!) should
bring further and significant improvements. I also did not play at all with my
Accuphase DG-38 room correction system.

Thanks again guys!
Paul

Hi guys, here are my answers to each of your comments:

Stereo5, the dealer has delivered the speakers to my home in person. I have
asked him to help me set them up (paying him would not have been a
problem) but he was certainly not eager to do it. My impression is that he
really has no idea what to do.

Douger, is it worth while to buy both (i.e. the book and the DVD)? I would
assume one will get more from the book, right? (I am a physicist doing
research on vibrational spectroscopy, so I am quite familiar with the way the
waves interact.)

Duomike, your comment certainly makes sense. Many SS amps do not do the
1st watt right so they sound terrible when driving very efficient speakers. As I
have mentioned in my previous post, I do not think that Accuphase class A
amps fall into this category. However, if I am mistaken, than I will most likely
choose the Accuphase electronics over the UNOs. This week-end I will install
back the Focal Micro Bes and the REL. I will report the differences.

Bmwmcab, I have the current generation of Avantgarde UNO. They are called
G2 (generation 2).

Arthur, you are probably right that the speakers and not yet burned in.
Apparently, the guy has them in his shop for a year and a bit. However, I have
visited his shop twice in the last 6 months, and every time the speakers where
in different rooms, i.e. one speaker was on the ground floor while the other
one on the 1st floor. It was like he was using them as decorations....
Regarding the settings you have suggested, they do not work in my room.
Because my room is decently treated (I have tracks on the walls that allow me
to easily move my acoustic panels so there are not clapping hands echos at
the listening chair), I spent most of the time finding the position of the
speakers/sub and the sub settings that yield the best bass response. When
doing this I perform measurements and also listen to double bass jazz
walking lines (the goal is to have all notes of the double bass equally loud).
For crossover setting below 9 I hear a clear gap between the high and low
notes of the double bass. The current setting are 10 for the crossover and 5
for the subwoofer level.

Any other thoughts and suggestions are very welcome and much appreciated!
Paul

I am happy to report that I have decided to keep the UNOs. The MicroBes
and the REL are up for sell already.

However, a lot has happened since my last post. Using the settings listed in
the opening post (9 for crossover and 5.5 for sub level) I have started to
just listen to music. The plan was to listen as many CDs as possible.
However, I have quickly realized that the system was sounding
good/decent only with audiophile recordings. Most other discs sounded
very thing and fatigue (bass while strong and good at times was missing in
most songs). After hearing this, I have installed back my MicroBe - REL
combo, only to hear how boxy they sound. (Though compare to the UNOs,
the MicroBe - REL combo had a much more balanced sound overall). The
situation was desperate to say the list.

Luckily, I have remember Arthur's advice about the crossover and
subwoofer volume settings, and I have started playing with them again. The
current settings are 4 for the crossover and just below 5 for the subwoofer.
The sound is very similar to what I remember hearing a few year back when
I have listen to the UNO - Accuphase combo I have told you about. That is,
very quick, dynamic and detailed sound with full midrange and not at all
fatigue.

(Somehow after reading the Avantgarde manual, I got the idea that I should
start with a high value for the crossover setting and gradually move down.
Thus, I have started with the maximum value, i.e.11. Unfortunately,
because, as reported, for settings below 9 there was a clear difference in
loudness between the high and low double bass strings - which I could not
correct by adjusting the subwoofer level - I have never used settings below
6 for the crossover. Thanks a lot Arthur for pointing out this crucial detail.)

Regarding your suggestions to try a tube amp, I certainly have nothing
against it. I'll keep the Accuphase for now and let the system settle in, but I
will ask the dealer who a few years back has demoed for me the Accuphase
- UNO combo to lend me some tube amps (he carries 47 Labs, Audio Note,
Manley and a few others). If the tubes sound that much better than my
Accuphase pre-power rig then I'll go with tubes. My only requirement,
beside good sound, is a balanced knob which I often used while working at
my desk (the desk is not situated between the speakers).

Arthur, regarding listening above 80 dB, my ears are more sensitive to
prolong listen session because of my drumming. It has nothing to do with
an unbalanced sound spectrum. I have also asked my wife, who is rather
sensitive to such anomalies, to come and listen to the UNOs and she had
absolutely no complains.

Finally, Whart and Arthur, I would like to thank you again for your very
helpful replies. Most likely I would have returned the UNOs if not for you
very helpful advices about toe in and crossover settings.

Best wishes,
Paul

Tubes108, thanks for the very useful information. I am fully aware of what
you are saying. I use Norah Jones' "Cold cold hear" song (track 3 on the album
"Come away with me") when setting up speakers. First, I make a loop with my
CD player and play only the first measure of the double bass intro. While
having this loop going I move the speakers around the room looking for the
place where all notes sound equally loud. (I've moved the UNOs, my drum kit
and furniture, so the UNOS were firing agains each of the 4 walls.) After that, I
play the whole song and adjust further the crossover and level of the
subwoofer so I do not hear any sibilances in her voice. It is rather easy to
make Norah's voice thing and edgy. For the time being I am very happy with
the sound. I am sure I will tune further the crossover and sub level settings.
So, far I went only form click to click on the adjusting knobs. It is good to
know that I can go in smaller steps. I will report back as things progress.

Whart, I am rocking already! Yesterday morning I made the mistake to go into
my music room to listen a song or two before going to work, I ended up
taking the whole day off. :) Regarding Amsterdam, if any of you are heading
this way just pm me. I've be happy to have you for an audition.

Thanks again guys! I will keep you posted.
Paul