Avantgarde UNO set-up tips needed


A local dealer let me try a pair of Avantgarde UNO speakers in my own system at home. I have an Accuphase system (A-45 amp, C-2410 pre and DP-600 sacd player). The dimension of my room are 4.7 x 3.6 x 2.4 meters, i.e. 15.4 x 11.8 x 7.9 feet (L x W x H) - just a bit larger than the minimum 16 square meters recommended by Avantgarde.

So far, I have obtained decent results with the speakers firing perpendicular on the long wall. The singers are dead center and most often I get a rather good 3D soundstage. The speakers are 3 meters, i.e. 10 feet, apart and 3.1 meters away from my listening chair. A scheme of the room layout can be seen here:

Room layout

However, very often the size of the instruments is much larger than in the real life. I also need to crack up a bit the UNOs to sound their best. Finally, I should mention that compare to my Focal Micro Utopia Be & REl Stentor 3 speaker set up, the sound of the UNOs, while faster and more detailed, is not always as well balanced.

The settings I currently use for the UNOs are:

SUB-S: 20 Hz
FREQ.: 9
RANGE: high
VOLUME: 5.5

I would like very much to keep the speakers as the prices is very very good. Consequently, any set-up tips to improve the performance of the UNOs will be greatly appreciated. (I still have a bit more than a week to decide whether or not I will keep the speakers.)

I thank you all in advance!
Paul
nvp

Showing 3 responses by whart

Paul: I saw this because you posted to A-Ball's system page, asking for set -up tips, and I'll defer to him on the G2 Uno. I have had the older Duo for quite a while and can give you a few ideas in the meantime.
First, the speakers do require some burn-in.
Second, they are hyper-sensitive to everthing else in the system chain, not just noise, but character of associated electronics. I use mine with SET amps and they are a marvel. Of course, there are any variety of amps that will mate with Avantgardes, and you don't have to use tubes, but the combination for me has been quite magical.
Here are a few thoughts on positioning:
given that the woofer is integral to the horn, you are somewhat limited by where you can position for best bass vs. imaging of the mid-highs. I'm wondering whether you could work from the corners, rather than a conventional long wall vs short wall set up.
You may need to get them out into the room a bit more, and maybe try to take advantage of corner loading for the bass. It requires some experimentation, a helper and perhaps some basic 'testing' for bass modes.
The rule of thumb for the Duos was to position the toe-in so you could see the knobs that hold the horns- this is described in some of the Duo set-up threads here on the 'Gon. Look for posts by Jim Smith, the former US distributor, and a user named Triode (and me, too). Get it right, and they just 'lock.' Unfortunately, I do not know if these parameters are the same for the G2 Uno.
You may have to fool around with the angle of the horn and height relative to ears. Again, I don't know if that's the same on the Uno as my older Duo.
Also, I use footers on mine- Grand Prix Audio, but I'm not suggesting you have to buy those. They do sound better than the spikes or regular feet that came with the speaker.
You really have to experiment with crossover setting and gain on the woofer to get the best integration. Some room treatment, which you have, helps, but adding bass traps to my room improved things. Also, as I have continued to improve upstream electronics, most recently my line stage, the bass integration is better and better.
Finally, I think I read that you don't believe in power cords. I don't necessarily want to provoke a debate about that, because I know there are strong views on both sides, but I did hear noticeable differences using different power cords on the powered woofer. The speaker cable will also make a difference. I don't know how the Uno is set up for wiring- do you hook directly to the mid driver and then use a jumper to the woofer? That's how my Duos work and having a custom cable made improved things enormously over the stock jumper, and then again, when I changed from one well-regarded brand of cable to another that just seemed to sound better- richer, more nuance.
The Avantgardes are great speakers if set up right, with good associated electronics. I know several people who have heard my system who said that when heard at shows, the speaker was too bright, or didn't have the warmth or naturalness they heard in my set-up. I attribute that to all the other stuff in the chain, as well as good set up.

The master at this is Jim Smith. He is no longer the Avantgarde 'guy' here in the States, but offers consultation services. I don't know if he'd be willing to do a phone consult, given that you probably don't want to pay him to travel to the Netherlands, but he is a great guy and a wonderful resource for these speakers.
Hope you wind up getting them set up to your satisfaction.
Oh, one other thing, if you can get the stuff moved away from between the speakers, they will probably sound better, and you won't have to move them out into the room as much, given that you have some constraints on the the distance from front to back wall.
Paul, thanks for the nice words, I'm hardly an expert, but I've lived with the
speakers (Duos) along time and have learned alot about them and
associated equipment through them. I do not think they are a speaker you
can get 'right' quickly due to how sensitive they are to the other equipment
in the chain. It took a long time for me to get them to sound fairly
integrated, low to high, and even then, i could hear some discontinuity. In
fact, although I had a highly regarded line stage and phono preamp, they
still didn't perform as well as they could. Although they sounded wonderful
in the midrange, I still wasn't getting the best bass from them and there was
still a lack of homogeneity until those components were recently changed.
Before that, I could get the bass to sound good but it then plainly sounded
'different' in kind than the horns (louder and slower) , and if I got them to
integrate smoothly, the bass seemed too feeble. I attribute this in part to
the inherent differences in the dynamic, self powered woofer and the
crossover-less midrange horn, as well as the associated equipment. And
that doesn't address placement or burn-in either. The only additional
thoughts I have, beyond what has already been suggested here are:
-email jim smith and see if he is willing to do a paid phone consult for a
reasonable fee (buying the book is fine, I don't own it, I gather it has a lot of
good advice on system set-up that is useful), but Jim really knows
Avantgarde (although he may have less familiarity with the current line) and
now makes his living doing set ups because he is really good at that. He
knows how to tune a system- it won't be the same as his spending time in
your room, but it may be worth a modest fee by phone, if he will do that;
-if the speaker uses the factory supplied jumper cable , replace it with a
better cable; it will make a big difference; that was the first change I made
once I got the speaker;
-get the dealer to loan you a high quality tube amp, just for comparison
sake; I know the Accuphase is highly regarded, but when you hear just how
dramatic component changes are over these speakers, it will show you
how revealing they are, and how very important synergies are. It sounds
crazy, but my wife- who is very much a tolerant non-enthusiast, spent an
hour with me a few months ago comparing footers on the power supply to
my phono stage- she could readily hear the differences and she is not a
'brainwashed' audiophile. The fact is, the speaker can be that revealing (or
intolerant) of everything in the chain, which is why I think they are often
criticized when heard at shows or dealers where they are not properly set
up. One last minute, but very important thought: I didn't realize how
important the noise floor in the system and ambient noise in and
surrounding the room was until I lived with these speakers. They are
capable of reproducing extreme nuances if the system is quiet enough and
the electronics revealing enough to let the information through. This means
even more work to get everything to be as quiet as possible. This may also
have something to do with gain issues among various components. You
then are not listening at very high volume to hear the full measure of the
music on a good recording, and when you get the volume to a 'natural
volume' for that recording, and the system energizing the room properly,
they can be startling; very alive and 'in the room' which is the real magic of
these speakers.
Get it wrong, and they are playing 'at you' and sound intolerable.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
Good stuff there, Tubes 108! Makes sense too, since you are treating the sound of the woofer as part of the midrange, rather than a disconnected device. Paul will be rocking soon enough. The only thing he has to do is invite Jim to his house. Me, I'd come over too, since I love Amsterdam. :)