How does cable construction affect sonic character?

@hilde45 -

     Back in March a thread about power cords and break/burn-in was started.

     I hate to type, so: I'm going to copy/paste some of my speculations.

     That a highly complex musical signal, MIGHT affect Poynting vectors and signal speeds, in interconnects, in a much more profound manner than a simple AC (ie: a fixed 60/50 Hz) signal, in a PC, seems likely (at least) to me.

     Further: all of the above and what I'll c/p (seems to me) lends credence to how the application of a stronger, DC voltage/field, outside a dielectric (ala Synergistic MPC and Audioquest DBS systems), might stabilize those vectors and signal speeds, PERHAPS eliminating some time smear and, "burn-in". 

rodman99999 5,456 posts 03-31-2022 at 12:13am  @holmz-       Bear with me a minute, in my folly, far as a possibility on why a power cord might make a difference.       Based on some of the theories on how electricity works, simplified:       The conductor acts as a waveguide for the signal/voltage.       Within the conductor: when excited by an AC current, electrons oscillate, generating photons/electromagnetic waves that travel, always from the source, to the load.        Keep in mind: all signals (ie: music, AC) are sinusoidal  waves        Those photons/electromagnetic waves travel through and outside the dielectric, which (according to it's permittivity/Poynting vectors) will have various effects on those waves.    One of the most obvious, is the dielectric's effect on the speed of the signal.       The better designers of printed circuit boards, even take the above into account, when choosing materials for their products.        I posted a link on the first page, that included data on the manufacture of semiconductor chips and what was observed when materials were cryo'd, during process.     Short version: better contact/lowered resistance between layers.           Under the scanning microscope: much smoother surfaces observed.        I would hope, by now, it's a given that various cable constructions, twists, braids, etc, can make for a cleaner transmission of signals (ie: Litz, etc).                     Just seems to me (a hypothesis): given the above (some theories and some things established/measured/proven), it's not a big stretch to believe a power cord, built of the best conductor (Ohno CC silver), wrapped in a very low dielectric coefficient dielectric (ie: Teflon), cryo'd for the smoothest transfer of those photons/magnetic waves and twisted in some crazy way, might not smooth out some of preturbations/noise, from the crap an AC waveform had to go through, back to it's generator.  (run-on, much?)        I haven't tested this, actually comparing two circuits, but: it wouldn't surprise me, if a power supply that used a choke, would be less affected by a better power cord, as the former can eliminate a lot of the high freq garbage, etc, that's either created by, or makes it through all the big converting/filtering stuff, before.        Never thought about PCs before the good stuff hit the market, but: the Physics/QED made sense.             I tried 'em, I like 'em and the science makes my head feel better.                               Don't care WHAT it does to anyone else's!

rodman99999 5,456 posts 03-31-2022 at 12:27am       OH, and: it takes some time for the dielectric to form, take a charge, polarize, or however one chooses to define the process, when a dielectric is subjected to electromagnetic waves, which affects the Poynting vectors, measurably/predictably.               The lower the material’s dielectric constant: the longer that takes.                                                PC burn-in?    Maybe?

                                                    Happy listening! 

                                         Make that: perturbations (oops),

                                           AS IF that'll be the objection!

It all comes to quality of electrons. With music AC signal they simply eagerly oscillate, as Rodman99999 stated. Unfortunately with a little bit of DC present, they slowly drift toward the end of the cable (drift velocity) and "poof" they are gone. Your expensive electrons just got replaced by lazy generic variety :)

Just a general note for everyone, the kind of note that has been written here dozens of times, or more, in such threads..

The condensed angry version, of course. tomorrow it might be the kind and gentle overly involved life sucking 20 post version that falls on the all too common 'not listening' ears.. but not today. perhaps today we might get lucky and one malcontent will accept and understand the angry version. That would be nice.

~~~~~~~~

The ear’s sensitivities are not totally conscious some are unconscious and we can get tired when listening and miss details, in similar fashion as we can with eyes. We slide those filters around and like the eye, we build up detail we understand, over time. and it’s all about very subtle changes in the signal, and that does not show up in the measurement methodology that is in use in the vast number of measurements of cables.

to add, each eye is different and each ear is different. Like intelligence we can have dumb minds vs smart minds, and smart ears vs dumb ears.

With eyes, we can discern VERY small changes in color and tonality, the kind that the finest measurement systems MISS ENTIRELY. I have experience in this in the lab, of a company that makes the finest artist paints on the planet, and I’ve worked in making the best video screens this world knows and I’ve done the same for CRT projectors and digital projectors. All at the the TOP of the trade. I know what I’m talking about.

There’s the alphabet and rote learning book based standards and references they feed you in schools...which is not the final word, it is the starting point for your life learning adventure!!!.... and then there’s the real world Peak Lore. Big Difference. the top is the smallest part of the smallest part, where the one percent have another one percent of them, above them.

the sames sort of things happen in the world of measurement of audio signals and the human ear.

There is a huge body of work regarding ears and hearing, and all which is connected to that.

so don’t let some rubber stamp using poorly informed scientism based ground pounding half or quarter informed monkey come in here and tell you it’s all psychoacustic crap and all cables sound the same.

The problems come when the bulk decides that it must overpower the peak of the given thing, as the bulk mass feels upset that they ’don’t get it’. like the peak of it has something against them and is denigrating them via simply being more capable and able. Not so. but they feel that way, so they go after the things they don’t know and can’t reach. It’s why intelligence and capacity generally hides. all due to the ego of humans.

cables make a difference, and people can hear it reliably. Get over yourself and your limitations and stop beating up others because they can. Jebus.

If you decide that you don’t hear a difference well, that’s fine too. or you can or might be able to train yourself to hear a difference. that 10,000 hours to master something idea. In the end, one might find that they can’t anyway and the effort was wasted. Additionally, to control for a set of variables you are learning on the fly and happen all together. how to sort a very very complex list of things you don’t know?

Additionally...the problem comes in a bonus round form...in that hearing does not have a physically extant adjunct so those who can’t - call out those who can.

this subject is so tired, that if I owned this forum, I’d have a period of banning people (week and then month long on the second offense, etc) who keep bringing it up, until the insistent finally take the hint and give it up.

It might be old hat for some, but it's not necessarily so for everyone.

Not all cables can pass all frequencies precisely (no mater what the level) without any timing delays or transient loss. That's especially true for higher powered situations such as speaker cables.

Manufacturers play on this fact and produce exotic products that are designed to extract massive sums from gullible audiophiles.

That's why this discussion is important and shouldn't dismissed as repetitive.