Problem with phono stage


Hello Fellow Audiogoners,

I need help with my Phono stage. It is Lehman Audio Black Cube from Germany.  It was recommended from Simao, a very respected Audiogon member who helped me a lot when I was building my stereo. It costs 450$ brand new which I bought used from this site. Michael Fremer considers it one of the best steals in phono stages. I get a little bit better detail and bass extension BUT it also much noisier. I can hear the pops and any other noises  on the records much more then with the phono stage of my Arcam FMJ 28 which turned out to be a surprisingly good one considering it is an integrated one.
I also switched the cables but the noise is still there.
Is this a common problem with added phono stages as opposed to integrated ones or something is wrong with my phono and needs to be checked.

All help will be greatly appreciated.
Emil


emilm
Dear @emilm : Normally when we make a true up grade in any room/system the new item comer will disclose several hidden " problems/distortions " that due to inferior design/quality of the other items in the system can't disclose it.

That " humble "  Lehmann phono stage is way superior to your discontinued integrated Arcam. You need at least a line preamp with similar quality design and quality excecution to the design as the Lehmann you own.
Sorry to tell you but your Arcam is really a " poor " quality performer and the Lehmann quality showed that Arcam low quality level.

Anyway, you need to make the rigth Lehmann set up with the cartridge in use.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
You said:

"""  I get a little bit better detail and bass extension BUT it also much noisier. """

Why the Lehmann? it's a true up-grade over what you own.

If you are not willing to invest what your overall system needs and " crying " for then put on sale the Lehmann and stay as you was before the Lehmann.

Good analog quality performance level is way demanding.

R.
It looks like Raul is on a roll again. There is some possibility a post of his will be removed, so I will not quote it. Instead I will generally address some of his benighted comments.

The calculator I linked to demonstrates that an electrical resonant peak exists with any cartridge. But it is a mistaken idea to assume that the peak has an influence at only one frequency. As you can see from the graphs, there is a rise in the frequency response curve prior to the peak; this is true of *any* resonance; the slope of the curve is defined by a value known as 'Q' (Quality) in radio terms (and is caused by how tightly the windings of the inductance are wound). The higher the Q value, the higher the peak and the steeper the curves on either side of it. From this we can see that the Q associated with MM cartridges is considerably lower than that for LOMC cartridges. This also means that its influence is spread out over a wider range of frequencies- the lower the Q the wider range of frequencies it influences. Here is the Wikipedia page regarding Q:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor

Any signal that exists in the envelope is boosted. In addition, phase shift will exist below the cutoff of the resonance (this is basic filter theory); the ear perceives this as brightness since this is a peak rather than a dip. So the result is the brightness will enhance ticks and pops. Ticks and pops are high frequency in nature; this is why a 'scratch filter' seen in older audio gear rolls off the highs. This stuff should be pretty easy to understand.


I've seen the idea that a tick or a pop is not a repetitive signal; that its an impulse. We can see easily that this idea is false and quite laughable! This is because of the very simple fact that audio circuits amplify signals inside the audio band, and ticks and pops exist in the audio band as well (hence scratch filters affect them...). This means by definition that they **are** repetitive in nature albeit quite short. Further, its important to understand that not all ticks and pops have their origin on the LP surface as I've pointed out earlier: many phono preamps generate them due to poor high frequency overload margins in the front end of the phono circuit. This is common with opamp-based preamps as quite often where the overload is occurring is outside of the feedback loop of the circuit so it can't be corrected by feedback. Regardless of their source, ticks and pops are an audio frequency artifact, but if the playback apparatus is set up properly they can be minimized. To this point (also as I mentioned earlier) I am very used to playing entire album sides without any ticks or pops (so long as there are no actual scratches on the LP surface) and I don't clean my LPs with anything more than a carbon fiber dust brush.


Raul appears so willing to attack me that he's actually contradicting himself in order to do so. In this quote, which is from a post of his that has not been reported he says this:
No one approach 500mH.
But I only used that example in my prior post because Raul said this:
first than all Nagaoka is not MM design but IM similar to MI and the like where normally internal inductance is not really high ( say over 600. )
-In that prior post of mine I even quoted the part above! In general, when you see someone engaging in this sort of behavior its not about fact anymore, its about making someone else 'wrong', often at any cost. Its my feeling this is the phenomena we are seeing here. 


Emlim,
Records all have pops and noise that can be eliminated by a number of methods.  I had a black cube in the past.  My guess as to why it reveals more pops and clicks has to do with lack of feedback.  By inserting feedback into the signal noise that is common is canceled out.  I would say the black cube has less feedback.  BTW, D Class amplifiers with their reconstruction filters also tend to eliminate pops and clicks.

This is all assuming correct setup of the cartridge.  A cartridge with too much downward pressure on the groove will be noisier.

The problem with noise is more pronounced in phonos without feedback, those using MC cartridges, and older LPs from the 50's and 60's  

Cleaning records will help and so will antistatic treatments.  An ultrasonic cleaner can be assembled with ready to go parts.  I built this one in a couple hours for about $400.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtL3unuiBMA

holder and motor
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974012782.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dNex46Q

Tank can be had same place or amazon or ebay

Order up some tubing and fittings

pump
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FMR73ZF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Filter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FA2RLX2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use an ionizer for static by DESCO
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/desco/ionizers/index.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlqzqldm57AIVGqSzCh1o9Q...

@atmasphere

i remember 6-7-8 years ago when i dove headfirst back into analog, reading so many loooooooong heated threads here between raul, oregon papa, chakster -- true analog experts with strong opinions, deep knowledge and experience and no fear in expressing .... hahaha

learned a lot, and through the jousts, and applied many ideas to my analog front end with outstanding results!