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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,853 posts
 

Funny thing about burn in .Is it your speakers need time to break in or you mind needs time to get used to the sound you are hearing ? 

Both can easily come into play.  It usually takes some time to be sure about things. 



larry5729's avatar
larry5729
1,000 posts
 
You would be very dissatisfied if you settled for the Focal 936 or the Martin Logan Motion 60's.  You will get ear fatigue from the Martin Logan's.  

I ended up buying a pair of Paradigm Prestige 85F towers and adding a pair of REL S3 SHO subwoofers.  They sound so much better than the Focal's and the Martin Logan's.  For $6,000 the SALK Song3 Encore's are much better.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,796 posts
 
@decooney Thanks. I will try those things. Interesting AMT history.
@auxinput I'm not qualified to partake of a burn in debate. I decided to get 100 hours on the speakers right away and they're now up to 200. Rather than wonder about it, I just did it.
@kenjit Do you know what the word "complaining" means? (Rhetorical question.)
@mapman This is really the first hifi rig (beyond mid-fi) I've put together and only in this room. LTA sounds interesting but I think I'm sticking with the amps and tubes I just bought. The speaker is the variable at this point. Trying the stands idea if necessary.
@limomangus I was using the shoe analogy recently for this topic with a friend. I no longer try to talk myself into shoes that aren't quite fitting in the store. I never wind up wearing them.
decooney
1,905 posts
 
@auxinput
sorry, but I disagree here in burn in. I have burned in so many different cables, capacitors, power cords, equipment, speakers. They all require burn in. Some more than others. I know that tweeters could have a slight bright edge when they are new and will smooth out after a burn in process. I have had some connectors and cables that sound absolutely nasty in the middle of the burn in process, but you need to be patient and wait. Sometimes my equipment is absolutely unlistenable in certain points of burn-in and I just have to stop and wait another few days.


+1
I’ve found about 50% of the people don’t believe it and don’t want to, or simply cannot hear a difference in their particular system and choice of source components and speakers in particular. And those with extra amounts of $ and impatience dump the gear prematurely. One can pick up some decent 2nd or even 3rd hand deals this way with components barely used a few months or less. A typical replayed pattern with Pass Lab amps, people panic’ing after spending big $. I have a new phrase for that "be a 2nd owner of a 90 day old Pass Labs amp, save time and money, haha!"

Literally drove myself close to crazy again burning in some of the upper end SG Mundorf EVO caps (3rd set of amps) and brand new AP Crystal Solo OCC cables lately, thought I/we would never get there along with a few buddies doing the same in parallel. As a baseline check we’d swap back to former cables periodically to stop second guessing, then comparing back to other used sets of the same model. OCC copper is a rollercoaster too. Some days exactly as you described it, had to step away for a few days. Spot on.

Patience can pay off in some cases with some gear known to have long burn-in cycles to finally settle in. :)
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,063 posts
 
+2 on the burn in process. Whereever it’s possible, I always opt for burn-in offered by cable manufacturers. I don’t normally sit down for any critical listening before 200hours burn-in mark.

My rig is wired with Audio Envy’s OCC copper loom and I couldn’t be any happier. They ended my quest for best possible cables for my system.
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