SUT vs. Phono preamp

Dear @terry9 : materials is always important but I think that the more critical and important characteristics belongs to the rigth build transformer design and the quality level for the excecution of that design.

Audio Note uses pure silver inits SUT’s and are not so good in quality level performance even its FR goes only at 50khz.

Design/manufacture SUT’s is no rocket science but more knowledge level and skills to do it.
Vintage SUT’s excells in those both characteristics and you have many examples:

Denon AU-1000 is only one of them and uses no silver, Audio Technica AT100T is other excellent unit ( I owned when I owned the AT1000MC where that SUT was dedicated for. ) with wide FR, Ortofon T-2000 silver wire and 4hz to 150khz, Technics top SUT is the champ on FR windth: 3hz to 300khz.. In this regards Lundahl is only average even the Ag version. Of the examples I mentioned only the Ortofon use silver wire.
I owned/own all those SUT’s but the Technics and I forgot and still own Entré that’s really good vinatge SUT.

In those old time existed a very hard SUT competition between manufacturers and this kind of contest made it that each brand tryed to be the top one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Btw, some one mentioned Luxman, well I owned the Luxman C5000A Phonolinepreamp that came with the 8020/30 silvber wire SUT's and were and are really mediocre and nothing to look for. Of course in those old times for me the C5000A was a premium unit but for other reasons not in specific for the SUT.

@rauliruegas ,

materials is always important but I think that the more critical and important characteristics belongs to the rigth build transformer design and the quality level for the excecution of that design.

I agree. I tried to say that in the sentence about trusting the Lundahl brand more than the Cardas. You said it better.

But I don't agree about vintage excelling modern. As I understand it, amorphous core (Metglas) has only been understood and available for the last 25 years or so. Also, modern machines allow for more precise tensioning and placement than previously, hence, at the very least, more consistency in manufacture.

As for FR, 1931Ag's are 10-100,000 Hz =/- 1dB, which is more than adequate for a puppy's hearing, let alone mine; and I trust Lundahl's current testing and reporting more than vintage.

Finally, my testing shows the 1931Ag to be pretty close to pure gain. Not a whole lot of room for improvement there.

The Technics SH 305S that Raul mentions is a Amorphous core type . It is a very good sounding SUT as I use one . It comes close to my best LOMC reference a BMC MMC1 current injection phono preamp 

Dear @terry9  : "  But I don't agree about vintage excelling modern.."

well maybe you could be rigth. I don't posted but I listened a system using Lundahl SUT but was a first time I listened to that system and I was in that sessions where the system had mounted a ZYX cartridge that again was the first time I listen that models so I really can't say for sure about that SUT that even I can´t remember its model.

Now: do you already listened to a vintage SUT as the Denon or Technics I mentioned?

Btw, of course that 100khz is a frequency that human beens can't hear directly but I think that " something " is down there with those vintage SUT's for it can goes with that so wide windth FR because if that be easy every one can do it and no today SUT are near of those kind of specs.

Now: "  Even so, my phono-pre is marginally better for dynamics and weight...." I can tell you that between other things the widest flat FR in an active unit is one reason on what you said even that that kind of so wide frequency range is out of our hearing sensitivity.

For many audiophiles SUT's can be addictive. Rigth now I'm listen through my AU-1000 and performs just great and with no noise levels you can detect. Can I ask for more? certainly I can live with for ever but due that my active phonolinepreampis so good in quality and resolution I prefer it  to the SUT but not by a very wide margin.

Music transients is one area where my active unit beats the Denon and from there comes other music main characteristics that SUT can't achieve it however can be near of them.

R.

@rauliruegas @enginedr

I have not listened to any of the SUT’s that you mentioned, but I have listened to some very good vintage SUT’s, both factory assembled and DIY assembled. None was as good as the 1931Ag, and only one was close.

We all three seem to be pretty much agreed, though, that even the best of the SUT’s is not quite a match for the best high gain phono/pre. I suspect that I could not tell the difference between the 1931Ag and a phono/pre using teflon or styrene caps for RIAA - it’s only by using vacuum and air-gap caps exclusively that I can differentiate. I suspect.