Thoughts on Tube vs SS amplification for Sony SS AR1s


Hi all~
Was hoping someone with more knowledge than me may be able to help clear up some confusion I’ve been having.
I recently was able to acquire my ‘unicorn’ speakers, the SS AR1s.  4 ohms, 88 dB, 28hz-60khz.
i have an integrated tube amp, the  Luxman LX-380, which on paper doesnt seem to deliver a lot of power for these speakers (14 w into 4 ohms), but i have been really surprised by how full/robust everything sounds with the Luxman in place. I had been advised that a more powerful SS amp (‘at least 200 w per channel!’)  would be needed to get the most out of the SS AR1s (and i have had a lot of SS amps in the past), but To be honest I’m pretty impressed with how it sounds already - So,  i was just hoping someone with more experience here could weigh in? Is it necessarily true that tubes just aren’t a good match for a speaker of this sensitivity? Would a more powerful amp like the luxman mQ-88uc (25 w into 4 ohms) be worth looking into? Would a powerful SS amp really make these speaker sing (and i just dont know what I’m missing)? I want to take advantage of the low-end of these new speakers (which is the main difference from my previous pair), so looking for some guidance re tube amps and exerting control over speakers like these.

thanks much!
sfmorris
sfmorris,
In your opening post you wondered if you don’t know what you’re missing regarding the sound quality (SQ) of your Sony speakers. According to George and jsautter the answer is a resounding yes! You don’t know what you’re missing. George provided legitimate technical test measurements to make a very strong case.

Based on the Stereophile Sony  measurements your Luxman tube amplifier is weakest ( decreased power of 14 watts/4  ohms i.e. lower speaker impedances) right in the range where the Sony speaker is most demanding of an amplifier.  . That’s quite the dichotomy it would seem. What’s fascinating is despite clear technical evidence that the Luxman should fail in miserable fashion, it sounds terrific according to you. I don’t doubt what you hear.

How is this apparent contradiction possible? How can what one hears be so contrary to what verified measurements would predict? sfmorris it would be undeniably interesting if you could get an amplifier (or very similar type ) suggested by George and compare directly to the 14 watt Luxman.

Would the technically corrdct/preferred powerful high current transistor amplifier expose shortcomings of the Luxman while effortlessly driving the Sony’s to new heights of sonic capability? Or would those 14 tube watts continue to impressively make beautiful music and possibly outshine the more powerful competitor? This listening comparison would be very insightful and informative.
Charles
sfmorris OP


The combination of 3ohms and -60 degree phase angle at around 70hz (right in the bass power region), makes it look more like 1-2ohm loading to an amp. Then a continual load from there of 2.7ohms out to 500hz. Very tube, and many weaker solid state amps unfriendly.
In fact looking at both graphs, this Sony speaker to me looks even worse at 70hz (because of it’s -phase angle) than the "king" of unfriendly speakers to drive, the Wilson Alexia!!!!.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/1213Walexfig01.jpg

These Sony’s seem to be just like the Wilson Alexia, a "real pig" of a speaker to drive, but once driven correctly the rewards are both are something to behold. I’ve heard the Alexia’s driven with Gryphon Antillion Evo, and it’s a sound that you will never forget and always strive to get yourself.

Cheers George

sfmorris


Nice score! Those Sony SS AR1 are killer speakers with not many fortunate owners. When Sony wants to make a state of the art product- it delivers!


Keep us posted on the system you choose to build.

Happy Listening!

When Sony wants to make a state of the art product- it delivers!


Yeah you got right, here’s their 3 way ESL’s they made way back 110kg each, I heard the Emperor of Japan had a pair.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-R10.html

Cheers George
George, 
Again from a pure technical analysis you are absolutely right in referring to the Sony speaker as a "pig of a speaker" given its extremely demanding need for current delivery.  How in the world does the low watt tube Luxman produce wonderful sound paired with this very difficult speaker load?  Can it be explained by the assumption that the Luxman has superb quality output transformers and power supply section or is it more complex than that? Really intriguing how this is pulled off.
Charles