Amp recommendation and setup advice please


Hello,

I love music and I adore quality sound - I cannot listen to music on ordinary speakers/devices.

I have been trying to do my research on sound systems/speakers/amps etc.. and learn/understand the whole shebang, but I'm not that much of a tech head. 

I want to buy the Klipsch RF-7 II tower speakers (I think they are passive, hence requiring an amp). 

I want them for both my new TV and also the vinyl/turntable setup I am going for, which is as follows:

Turntable - ProJect Debut Carbon Premium with Ortofon 2M RED (cartridge)
Phono (pre-amp) - ProJect Phono Box DS
Speakers - as above
Subwoofer - thinking either Klipsch R-12SW or R112SW
Amp - ??

I have a few questions:

1. Am I on the right tracks for having all the essentials?
2. Can someone recommend a good amp to power my speakers and sub please, and does the sub need powering or does it have it's own amp? 
3. Do I need a DAC for TV and connection to laptop? If so can you recommend a good one please? I was thinking of Audioengine D1 Premium 24 bit DAC Interface Connector.
4. Please suggest any alternative products if any of the stuff I mentioned are no good or don't fit together that well.
5. How would I set all of this up? Do I need anything else?
6. Do I need more speakers? I'm worried that the sub may be too much bass and drown out the tower speakers. 

I apologise for my lack of knowledge - I've just signed up here because I read that I could get advice and guidance from enthusiasts and experts. I know that my questions and post may frustrate some of you as I may have made some rookie mistakes, and perhaps this type of post has been done a 100 or so times but wasn't sure how to get answers/help. 

Many kind thanks in advance!

Mo
laher

Emotiva 6s.  For $100 more you get larger drivers, twice as much power, twice as much weight in the cabinet.  The 6s will play lower (bass) and will have a more refined sound in comparison, so it is definitely better.  I was just trying to play in your budget sandbox and the 5s was already more than what you were looking at with the Audioengine A5+.  I also threw the more expensive NFB-29.28 out there as an idea because the cheaper 11.28 had limited inputs (only 3 digital inputs and no analog inputs).  The more expensive NFB-29.28 also has two sets of RCA outputs – you could use one of these sets to connect to a subwoofer in the future to help fill in the very low bass.

You could upgrade either the Airmotiv or the Audio-GD DAC and get better sound – or upgrade both.  It all depends on your budget and what you really want.  The 6s will definitely be an improvement in sound experience (but punch/bass for TV).  I think the cheaper NFB-11.28 will be totally fine for your situation.  Just know that you are limited on expandability.

CABLES: I make all my cables by hand.  They use Furutech Rhodium Carbon Fiber XLR connectors and 20awg solid-core OCC copper conductors in a double-braided configuration (making a 17awg interconnect).  The cost would be about $800 for me to make a 1-meter pair for someone.  This has been the best sounding cable with the most resolution I have heard to date.  I have had the opportunity to compare it to the Wire World Eclipse 7 XLR cable at $450 for 1-meter (NOT the Silver Eclipse).  The sound was very similar and the Wire World was an excellent cable.  All the detail was there, but the Wire World was just slightly softer / laid-back in comparison.  The Wireworld design is not quite solid-core (all the conductors are set side-by-side like a ribbon cable), but it is not nearly as bad as stranded conductors either.  For the money, it is an awesome able.

IMPORTANT: On another note, one more thing you should be aware of is the A/C voltage.  I know 220V is usually normal in Europe, where US is 120V.  Some equipment can be configured/switched to use different voltages, some equipment will automatically sense and adjust.  Some equipment will need to be send to manufacture to be modified internally.  You might was to make sure from the seller if a non-adjustable item is configured for your local A/C voltage.

So if I were to do it right first time round for the vinyl setup then I should go with the Hegel integrated amp, the Gustard DAC, and the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp. Is this regardless of which speakers and turntable I choose?

Yeah, this would be a very fine setup regardless of turntable.  There could be other good choices for phono preamp, and it is obviously based on what you can get shipped to you.

 

There are a couple Silver 10 available on UK Ebay site.  Hopefully, these links come across:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Monitor-Audio-Silver-10-3-way-250w-floorstanding-speakers-in-Black-Oak-/382244206068?epid=1824988012&hash=item58ff87b5f4:g:iowAAOSwojxZlxtn

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monitor-Audio-Silver-10-Speakers-Pair-Walnut-/332406853482?hash=item4d64fe0f6a:g:HcEAAOSwEIFZ272G

 

The Monitor Audio would definitely have the combination of warm/detail and low end punch that you want and still be in your budget.  They are 4 ohm speakers, so the Hegel would probably be the best integrated out of the list, since it has the largest power supply (critical for low impedance speakers).

There are some B&W CM8 or CM9 speakers on UK Ebay.  The B&W will have a warm/full midrange due to the Kevlar midrange driver.  The Kevlar does have a breakup issue where the midrange is somewhat smeared, but it is still very nice sounding.  However, these B&W speakers will not have the low-end punch that the Monitor Silver 10 has. The B&W’s have very small 5” or 6.5” drivers in comparison to the two 8” drivers in the Silver 10.

I would avoid Tannoy speakers.  In my listening tests, I did not like them because they were so laid back.  I have also heard that Sonus Faber is laid back as well.

Older tweeters were typically soft-dome (which is a synthetic material) or metal dome (such as aluminum or titanium dome).  The soft-dome were very nice sounding and did not have breakup/resonance issues, but they did not have quite as much resolution.  The metal dome tweeters help with resolution, but the metal material would breakup/flex/resonate are the tweeter frequencies and this caused the sound to be very bright/harsh.  The ribbon tweeters do not have this breakup problem, but they also sound laid back and are not as exciting.  The C-CAM tweeters are based on ceramic material, which is an excellent and stiff material. The newer ceramic / beryllium / diamond tweeters have better performance, but they can be a lot more expensive. 

I was using B&W Diamond (D2) series speakers, which I find to be excellent (but they are wayyy out of your price budget).  I was looking to upgrade and the Monitor Audio Platinum was on my list, but I decided to go with B&W D3 because of the diamond tweeters.  The Monitor ribbon tweeters were noted to be not exciting (but still extremely smooth and nice sounding).  I am very happy with the B&W D2 and D3 series.  I put the Silver 10 as a recommendation because it does use the C-CAM tweeter.  For your budget, I can’t think of another speaker I would recommend.  I will say that I am not well versed in speakers and there are a lot of other options out there.

----

Regarding your question on sub.  A subwoofer is usually needed when the listener wants extreme bass response in movies/tv.  I’m talking about earthquakes, explosions, massive bass thumps.  It’s a matter of taste.  If you just want to watch “general TV”, the Airmotiv/Audio-GD is fine.  If you were really concerned, you could get the more expensive NFB-29.28 and add a sub.  The Airmotiv will play “full range” and the subwoofer crossover would be set low at about 40-50hz to fill in the very low bass.

The Yamaha is better than the Hegel?

No Way.  This must be a joke! Lol.

As auxinput stated, use of a  subwoofer is not a necessity. Depends on type of main speakers and desires regarding movie augmentation. No way I believe the Yamaha to be better than the Hegel. I do believe it would serve well in your TV system and for anyone considering a $2000-$3000 budget one. The A-xxxS series represent great value for full function integrateds IMO.

Wishing you the best on your quest!  Looking forward to hearing of the results. 


Awesome response as always auxinput, you always explain things and provide good detail, thanks!

Thanks to your interest in my projects I now have everything I need to set the wheels in motion.

However, one last thing: I’m a little confused on the cables. And by the way, it’s so cool that you make your own, fascinating stuff!

For the TV setup (preamp/DAC and speakers, plus TV/Satellite), what cables do I need? Can you recommend some good quality ones (make and model)?

Same for the vinyl setup please (turntable, phono preamp, integrated amp, speakers).

I know you’ve mentioned a little bit about RCA cables and also a digital cable. But I guess just wanting to understand more so that I can confidently go out and buy them. When I searched the ones you suggested there seemed to be so many different types. Plus it would help to know what cables go where in the connection process. 

Mesch, thanks for the good wishes and also for your interest in my projects and helping me out. I’ll keep you updated for sure!

FOR TV SYSTEM:

To connect satellite to Audio-GD:  Blue Jean Cable Beldon 1694A – 6 feet. I always recommend 6 feet even if the satellite receiver is right next to the DAC. A digital cable that is too short will have signal reflections internally and will smear the sound.

To connect Audio-GD to AirMotivs: you could pick one of the gold-plated Audioquest cables, such as Tower / Evergreen / Golden Gate / Big Sur.  It depends on how much you want to spend on your TV setup.  The more expensive Audioquest cables have better copper conductors and the high-end ones have a NDS electric shield.  The Airmotiv speakers are likely to be placed further away from the Audio-GD so the cables are likely to be 6-9 feet long (or 2-3 meters).  These Audioquest are probably what I would recommend because longer RCA cables will increase the cost.  It’s not worth it to get something like Wire World Eclipse 7 for this TV system (which would be $700 USD for 2 meters)

 

 

FOR YOUR MAIN TURNTABLE SYSTEM:

To connect an iPhone/iPod, you will need an Apple Lighting to USB camera adapter and then a normal USB cable:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter

Keep in mind that this only supports the latest generation iPod (iPod Touch 5th/6th generation).  That page has a "compatability" section that shows the iPhone/iPad/iPod devices that are supported.  It would connect like this:

iPhone ==> Lightning-to-usb-adapter ==> normal USB cable ==> Gustard DAC USB input

I have read that some DACs do not play well with iphone iOS in recent updates.  You can google around if you are interested. For laptop, you just need to connect the laptop directly to the DAC with a normal USB cable (6 foot length of course).  In fact, you can just unplug/plug the same cable between your laptop and your iPhone/iPod.

Probably the best way to play music on the DAC is just use a laptop with media player software such as JRiver or other.  This will also allow you to play hi-res and DSD files to the Gustard DAC.

You can get better more expensive USB cables if you want, but to start out I would just use the basic cheap USB cable and see how you feel.  The better ones are made from silver/silver-plated conductors and they charge/discharge electrical signals faster which is more accurate for the high-speed digital signal.

 

To connect the rest of your sources to the Hegel, you will either need “single-ended” RCA or “balanced” XLR cables.  I will always recommend going with XLR if you can.  For example if you bought the Hegel and the Gustard, you could connect them using XLR interconnect cables.

The Hegel integrated has one set of XLR inputs (some integrateds, like the Arcam, do not have XLR inputs at all).  If you look at the Gustard DAC and the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp, they both have XLR outputs, so you would have to decide which one got to use the XLR inputs on the Hegel.  You can use RCA cables for the other device.  Since you said that you only “occasionally” listen to digital music, maybe the better choice would be to put RCA on the Gustard DAC (unless you bought a phono preamp that did not use XLR).

So:

Laptop ==> USB Cable ==> Gustard DAC ==>  RCA/XLR Cable ==> Hegel

Turntable ==> RCA cable ==> phono preamp ==>  RCA/XLR Cable ==> Hegel

 

There are a ton of different RCA/XLR cables and tons of different opinions.  I generally avoid silver/silver-plated conductors for audio interconnects because I have found silver will tend to push upper mids/highs and be lean on bass.  It also imparts an artificial character to the sound (making it less real or natural).  There are many who love silver and silver cables could be good in some systems.  They would not be good in this system.  That being said, the Wire World silver-clad plugs are really not that bad and they do not forcibly introduce so much of that “silver” sound.

So, my recommendations are the same for either RCA or XLR cables (big surprise):

Less expensive gold-plated Audioquest cables, such as Tower / Evergreen / Golden Gate / Big Sur

More Expensive Wire World Eclipse 7 

The Eclipse 7 also makes an excellent cable for your turntable, unless the turntable already has a cable built into it).  The Wire World will have more resolution in the sound (better details / attack) and will likely have tighter and punchier bass.  It is significantly more expensive, so it entirely depends on your budget.  It is perfectly fine to mix Audioquest and Wire World cables in your system, or different models of Audioquest.  Once again, it all depends on your budget.

 

You will also need speaker cables to connect the Hegel to speakers.  You can start out with normal 12awg stranded Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) speaker wire if you want.  This stuff is extremely cheap, like 50 feet for less than $20.  It’s really not that bad, but better speaker cable will definitely sound better.  If you were interested, I would start looking at the Audioquest Rocket 33 / Rocket 44+ / Rocket 88.  You can sometimes get used Audioquest speaker cable, but I would make sure it does not have any silver elements (like silver-plated connectors).

If you got the Monitor Silver 10 speakers, try to look for a speaker cable that has “bi-wire” on one end so that you don’t have to use a jumper.  On the Audioquest Bi-Wire, make sure the high-frequency connectors are connected to the top binding posts.  The Audioqest speaker cable uses variable gauge solid-core conductors.  It will use larger gauge wire for bass and smaller gauge wire for mid/tweeter.