Amp recommendation and setup advice please

Thank you all for your input. 

Okay, no sub for now - 1 less thing to worry about. 

I initially was only trying to get a setup for my turntable, but then my father was looking for a soundbar or speakers for the new TV we have in the lounge area so I thought of extending my setup to include the TV. 

But if it's easier to purchase some average active speakers with DAC for the TV and then focus on my setup purely for music (vinyl on the turntable, and occasional iPhone/iPod/laptop connection) then I'll do that instead. 

If this is a better approach then please recommend a good pair of active speakers and DAC - I was looking at the Audioengine A5+, any good?

Okay, so for my music setup, integrated amp (preamp + amp) or high end HT processor? I guess if no TV is in the mix then the integrated amp would be a better approach right? And I would still need a DAC if ever I wanted to plug in laptop for example, right? Any recommendations here? Unless of course you guys tell me that it's still a good option to try to incorporate the TV for my father and I should go down the HT processor route?

As for budget, I don't know how much I should be spending on an amp or HT processor. I want good quality, I like to have the best or close to. I know in this game the best could cost $25,000 for example, and I'm not going to pay that. But let's say $1,500 max, but of course if there are ones in the 400-800 area for example that will bring out the best of the speakers then great! I'll leave it up to you guys for recommending a few in different price categories with pros and cons. 

Can you also please recommend a good phone preamp if the one I was looking at is no good? 

I am interested in the Klipsch RF-7 II speakers based on some research and some reviews but I'm open to alternatives. I have a few others on the list that I was considering - PSB Image T6, Wharfedale Diamond 11.5, Aperion Audio Intimus 6T, Dali Zensor 7. 

I guess, I'm open to any suggestions for both setup and type of devices, as well as the devices themselves. 

Everything l came up with was all based on my research and knowledge but it clearly shows that I have a lot more to learn. Hopefully I'll get there and over time be able to experiment with different products and setups to one day contribute as you guys do :)

Many kind thanks once again, nice to know that there are audiophiles out there who are willing to share the wealth!

Besides being nice and tidy, what other benefits does an integrated amp (preamp + amp + phono preamp) have? Do you have any recommendations based the budget I mentioned? I don't know too many makes/models. 

Does anyone have any reasons why I shouldn't go with the RF-7 II speakers?

How about DAC? Thoughts and recommendations please?

Thanks again all for your input. 

auxinput:
The sources for TV will just be satellite, no Bluray or DVD. Those Elac B6 speakers seem like a great choice, and I assume you mention them because they are better than the Audioengine A5+ speakers? Could you also recommend a good AV receiver to go with them please?

Thanks for the advice on posting in other forums. I'll do that for the phono preamp and DAC. But thanks for recommending the Gustard X20 Pro. Before I move the phone preamp to another forum, I'd appreciate your recommendation on a good one to suit.

I know speakers are personal and everyone says I should go and listen, but I don't know of any decent hi-fi store that has these types of speakers and equipment to check out. 

toddverone:
Those Peachtree Audio amps look amazing. I'll take a deeper look to see if any have built in phono preamp. Thanks for suggesting. 

mesch:
Thanks for the integrated amp recommendation. And yes I have definitely decided to keep the TV and music systems separate. How does the Yahama 801 compare to the Parasound Halo? 

auxinput, same question to you?

Okay seems we are getting somewhere :)

For my father's TV setup it can look something like this:
- Emotiva AirMotive 5s (powered speakers, i.e. built in amp)
- HT processor (Krell Showcase or B&K Ref 20) OR 2 channel preamp/DAC (Audio-GD NFB-11.28)
-  configure satellite receiver to output 2-channel stereo audio through the digital connection and get a Blue Jean Cable Beldon 1694A 6 foot digital cable to connect them

Questions: do I need a preamp for powered speakers? do the HT processors you suggested have built in DAC and/or preamp? 

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For my vinyl setup it can look something like this:

- tower speakers (passive, make and model TBD)
- integrated amp such as Parasound Halo (phono preamp, preamp, amp, DAC) OR integrated amp (one that does not have DAC) + external DAC ( Gustard X20 pro or LKS MH-DA004)
- turntable (still thinking about the ProJect Debut Carbon Premium with Ortofon 2M RED cartridge)

Questions: do I need to consider anything else in this setup? what type of cables do I use? If I do go with the external DAC, please suggest a better integrated amp (as you mentioned). If this doesn't include phone preamp then I could consider the  PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp, but perhaps it's better to have an integrated amp that does include this and just have the external DAC, what do you think? perhaps there are even better integrated amps for the money that don't have phono preamps and then I get both DAC and phono preamps as external. 

---

I totally appreciate your comments about speakers, and I know how difficult it is to give advice without a foundation to build upon. I live in the UK and just moved to a new city and I have not been able to find a decent hi-fi store, they all seem to be commercial shops that sell the standard sony, panasonic, samsung type speakers that non audiophiles will buy. 

I'm not sure if this helps but my vinyls are mainly jazz, blues, soul, but if and when I do plug in iPod/iPhone or laptop then I will play music with more bass and more of a punch like hip hop, house, rock, RnB. 

Thanks Mesch for the consideration against my original mentioned product for the same budget, it's good to know that I have a good option (Yamaha 801) for around that price bracket. And I agree in not spending too much on the TV setup, my father isn't that interested in having the best, but I will also be watching and listening on this setup so I'd like it to be decent enough. 

I guess to answer everyone's question about budget (which is difficult because I hadn't really considered it and set any limit):

For the TV setup - maybe betwen $1000-1,500 but of course if it's possible to go lower than great.
For Vinyl setup - anywhere between $3000-5000 but this is for me to so willing to go higher as necessary. 

If it helps in providing amp recommendations, I don't think I'll want to add a sub to the TV setup but may want to on my vinyl setup but earlier comments said that with the right amp and setup, the types of tower speakers I was considering will have enough bass, so this is fine for me. So it's not an essential to have that option for my vinyl setup. 

Thanks again all for your knowledgeable expertise and insights and for your patience with me as a newbie. 

Thanks again auxinput!

I have contacted Emotiva’s UK distributor and they said they are finalising shipping details as it’s been a nightmare trying to keep the costs down. Once they sort this they will bring over a load of Airmotiv’s.

I was checking out the 6s, they seem bigger and better than the 5s and only $100 more. If I went for the Airmotiv 6s instead of the 5s would the Audio-GD NFB-11.28 still be sufficient enough? Or would I need to consider the 29.28?

Thanks for the cable recommendations, I’ll probably jump straight in and get the good ones as per your selection. 

- - -

So if I were to do it right first time round for the vinyl setup then I should go with the Hegel integrated amp, the Gustard DAC, and the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp. Is this regardless of which speakers and turntable I choose?

Thanks for the cable guidance, I’ll be sure to keep it in mind when I get them.

Those speakers sound great! I guess I’d be silly to ask if they are powerful enough. l’m definitely looking for clean, warm, and detailed speakers for my jazz and blues vinyls but I also need that deep and crisp punch from the lows to compliment the more modern music that I sometimes listen to (ie. hip hop, house, rock). Will the Hegel bring that out in these speakers?

I’m familiar with dome tweeters and also ribbon tweeters but what are C-CAM tweeters? How does the sound differ to the other two? 

In case I have trouble finding these, could you recommend another tower speaker for me to consider please?


Thanks mesch. So you think I need a sub for the TV setup or will the built in amp and external preamp/DAC bring out enough bass in the Airmotiv 6s? 

The Yamaha is better than the Hegel?

Awesome response as always auxinput, you always explain things and provide good detail, thanks!

Thanks to your interest in my projects I now have everything I need to set the wheels in motion.

However, one last thing: I’m a little confused on the cables. And by the way, it’s so cool that you make your own, fascinating stuff!

For the TV setup (preamp/DAC and speakers, plus TV/Satellite), what cables do I need? Can you recommend some good quality ones (make and model)?

Same for the vinyl setup please (turntable, phono preamp, integrated amp, speakers).

I know you’ve mentioned a little bit about RCA cables and also a digital cable. But I guess just wanting to understand more so that I can confidently go out and buy them. When I searched the ones you suggested there seemed to be so many different types. Plus it would help to know what cables go where in the connection process. 

Mesch, thanks for the good wishes and also for your interest in my projects and helping me out. I’ll keep you updated for sure!

Thanks again for fantastic guidance auxinput. It’s all so very exciting and I can’t wait for everything to come together :)

 

I will focus on the TV setup first because my father’s TV has arrived and the satellite will be installed in 2 weeks.

 

I contacted Audio-GD about the NFD-29.28 and they sent me an order form. It seems that the brand is Chinese, is that right? Have you ordered off their website before or know anyone who has?

 

http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

 

If all seems legit then I will go ahead and order one. I do not know any other online shop that sells them. Do you?

Do I need to tell them about AC Voltage for the UK?

 

I think I will buy the Big Sur Audioquest cables, I found them on eBay. Do I need a particular length like with the digital cable? Or is it just determined based on how far I want the speakers to reach?

I can’t seem to find any online shop that sells the Blue Jean Belden cable, do you?

 

What is the price of the Monitor Audio Silver 10, and the PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter brand new? I found both on eBay UK for what looks like good prices. Are you able to have a look for me and tell me if they look like good buys? Is there anything particular I should be asking before purchasing?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monitor-Audio-Silver-10-Speakers-Pair-Walnut/332406853482?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-Audio-NuWave-Phono-Converter-Silver/122746561273?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

I know I said I want to focus on TV first but I don’t want to miss out on good savings if these are good buys.

Also, I found the Hegel H200 and the Gustard DAC-X20 Pro on eBay UK too but they look like they’re being sold from new.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEGEL-H200-Integrated-Amplifier/152733904987?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-GUSTARD-DAC-X20-PRO-HIFI-DAC-2xES9018-XMOS-USB-384KHZ-DSD64-128-256/282396178689?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

What are the price of both of these brand new?

 

For the Vinyl setup, I thought about it and I will not use iPod/iPhone, only laptop. So if there are no complications with this approach then I will stick to integrated amp as it is cheaper and easier. Will the Gustard still be the right DAC for me? Do I need to consider a USB card for the laptop or does that only apply to desktop (which I don't have).

 

What is JRiver? I have not heard of this software before but it sounds interesting.

 

Thanks for all the cable and setup advice, I will follow up on these in time to come. I want to get the TV stuff sorted first and then slowly (due to the wife, not budget haha) start on the Vinyl stuff :)

Hi auxinput, apologies I've been on travels. Thanks again for all the responses.

I have spoken with Emotiva and they don't ship to the European market unfortunately and their UK distributor hasn't agreed a delivery contract with them yet. 

Are you able to recommend an alternative speaker that's equal or even better than the Airmotiv 6s please?

I am ready to buy the NFB-29.28 but need to either find the Airmotiv 6s or another speaker. 

I am going to complete this project first as my father now has his new TV and satellite all setup. 

Then I can start on my baby :)

Thanks for finding them on UK eBay auxinput. 

How do the HS80M compare to the HS8s? I may buy the one in the second link you provided but wanted to understand if there's a big difference between old and new. Do they handle detailed songs well?

Also, what's your opinion on the following:

- JBL LSR 305
- Neumann KH 310
- Adam Audio A7X
- Mackie HR824mk2
- KRK RP6G3 Rokit 6

These are way out of budget for this particular project but have you seen the Emotiva Stealth 8s? 

I’m going to pick the HS80M speakers up tomorrow, only an hour drive from me. Agreed £350 with the seller :)

I’m also going to purchase the NFB and cables later on today. 

Then I just need to hook it all up and test it out - I’ll keep you posted with updates/feedback. 

And then probably in the new year I will start with my turntable project :)

I bought the HS80Ms (the second eBay link you sent me).
I was able to hear them and I was thoroughly pleased :)
The seller had them plugged into a sound card and that into a laptop.
What benefits/differences will a preamp provide? Same question about the integrated DAC element of the NFB that I’m buying?

How much of a problem will it be if I buy the 29.28? Are those type of cables easy to find in the same quality as the Audioquest ones you recommended?

Thanks for the clarification auxinput - I have ordered the NFB-28.28. 
I imagine it will take some time to arrive considering it's coming from China. 

Apologies, maybe I didn't ask the right question(s) or phrase them very well. 

My current understanding of a preamp is that it will clean up the signal and boost/prepare the signal to be strong enough for further processing. Is this a correct summary? I was trying to get your technical input on what the preamp will actually do for me considering that there is already an amplifier in the speakers. What would the sound be like without the preamp?

My understanding of a DAC is that it converts the signal from digital (1s and 0s) to analogue (wave form) which is the preferred format for speakers as well as analogue being the original format of the recorded sound. Again, is this correct? What will the sound be like without a DAC? Is the integrated DAC in the NFB powerful? 

We previously discussed cables: the Bluejean cable is a coaxial cable right? Do I plug this into the TV or the Satellite box? Also, the link that you provided for the Belden 1694A Bluejean cable has different application/channel/boot colour options - what options should I be selecting to place my order?
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/shopbycable/1694A.htm

Is a coaxial cable the best cable/connection for the preamp and TV/Satellite? Perhaps it's the only option? The reason I ask is because I'm just wondering what would I need to do if there is no coaxial input (that's spare) on the TV or Satellite box?

Also, which audioquest cables should I be looking at? I don’t mean Big Sur vs Golden Gate for example, I mean the type of connectors on the end of the cable? I can’t seem to find the right type. 

The HS80M has XLR and 1/4” TRS jack. I should use XLR right? And then the other end would also be XLR (going into the NFB)?

Do you have a link for the right cable please?

Thanks, makes sense about the preamp/DAC. Looking forward to seeing what the NFB will do. 

I checked the back of the TV and the back of the Satellite box.

The Satellite box only has two USB ports and 1 optical out. The HDMI and 2 Satellite ins are being used. 

The TV has 2 USB ports, 4 HDMI ports, 1 Satellite in, 1 optical digital audio out, and 2 ports which I’m not sure what they are - 1 says audio out/ H/P and the other says RS-232C (SVC only).

The Lifatec Toslink is an optical digital cable? It seems like this is the cable I will have to buy right? And I think it would be better to plug it into the TV as the TV is also used for Netflix not just the Satellite. 

Apologies, I didn’t realise that the TV has a built in Netflix app. 

Okay so XLR cables from speaker to NFB and the the optical digital cable from NFB to either the TV or the Satellite box. 
Do I need to worry about a particular length of cables like before with the bluejean? 

On the back of the speakers there are controls for level, mid EQ, room control, high trim, and low cut.
Would you mind please explaining what these functions do and how I would used them?

Would HDMI cable work from TV to NFB for getting 2 channel audio on Netflix?

What about 3.5mm audio jack to RCA cable, would that work?

Okay I’ll leave the EQ settings at zero. What about room control, what does this do? Does it have something to do with how close my speakers are to a wall for example?

@auxinput I have everything up and running now but I’m not entirely convinced of the sounds. Perhaps I have set it all up incorrectly or maybe I need to do something with the settings of the TV or Satellite?

I feel like I need a subwoofer as the bass isn’t enough, and I also feel like there isn’t enough clarity in the highs (possibly the mids). 

Any thoughts/recommendations please? 

@auxinput apologies for the delayed response, it was my sisters wedding weekend. 

I have the Audioquest Redriver interconnects (XLR) from Yamaha monitors to DAC, and Lifatec Toslink digital cable from DAC to Satellite. I also tried the digital cable into the TV and it’s the same as when plugged into the Satellite. 

I changed the sound settings on the Satellite to stereo, and I have the DAC gain set to low. There are 4 gain settings: low, full, high, and super high. I read that a low gain with higher volume will result in a more neutral sound. Is this true? I’m not sure which gain setting I should be using. 

I have played music via Bluetooth on the Satellite (from my iPhone) and the sound is what I expected - the bass is impressive considering there’s no subwoofer. However when watching TV and movies there’s almost no bass. 

Perhaps a subwoofer would make a difference and pick up the 20-80hz range? Also, I was thinking about adding in a centre speaker too. Would this be a good idea? 

Will the DAC be able to power everything if I added the sub and centre speaker? And does the DAC have the availability to output to these?

I was reading that speaker position is vital. My room is 7.5m by 3.5m (roughly), and the TV/speakers are against the long wall. I have the tweeters at ear level when seated, very close to the wall, angled in to the couch creating a triangle effect. The speakers are about 2.5m apart from each other. Any reccomendarions for improving the positioning?

the sub you mentioned is one I short listed but stretching the budget a little bit, especially if I am to buy a centre speaker. I was also looking at the Klipsch R-112SW. Is this a good one? Also, is it better to have two average subs or one really good one?

Ignore the centre speaker parts, I realised that I'm talking garbage. I have a stereo setup and centre speaker is for surround setups so it doesn't make sense. I also don't think I have the available ports on my preamp/DAC after adding a sub. 

I have the gain on the DAC on low, the level on the Yamaha set to +4dB (half way), and all the presets to zero/flat. I may up the mids and highs to see how that sounds but I think it might not be necessary. 

I’m happy with the sound when I play music, but I guess it makes sense that the sound isn’t as good with the movies/TV if they are mastered to a 5.1 surround sound.

Maybe a HT processor or AVR would have been a good idea considering this was supposed to be a TV setup, but I’m happy sticking with the preamp/DAC. Apologies for my lack of knowledge and experience in all of this, but I do think the conversations took a turn for the best so thank you for your guidance. After all, it’s just a TV set up for my father and he is happy. I think the addition of a sub will complete the setup in my opinion (but this will be more for me than for my father lol). 

I’ll probably get the Audioquest Sydney (for example) at some point just to hear the difference between gold and silver plated interconnects, not because I think I need it. 

My DAC won’t support two subs right? I will try to purchase the Klipsch but it’s proving difficult finding a dealer in the U.K.

I could buy the Audioquest Big Sur for connecting the sub to the DAC right (RCA to RCA)? The thing that worries me is that the picture of the Big Sur looks as if the left and right connector split isn’t long enough to plug into the ports on the DAC. Does this make sense to you? I might not be explaining myself very well here.

This may be a silly question, but how worried should I be about knock offs and replicas when it comes to buying audio equipment off eBay or Amazon for example?

Unfortunately it’s not possible to put the speakers on the short walls. Any tips for making the most out of the long wall. I read one theory about putting them as close to the wall as possible, and if you can it’s best to mount them into the wall so that they are flush. The other theory was about putting them a foot or two away from the wall. I want to avoid or minimise the nulls in my room.

Thanks again for input and recommendations. 

I have purchased 2 Belden 1695A cables (15 feet each) and also purchased the Klipsch R-112SW (managed to find a UK dealer who had stock). 

I'll start with one sub for now and see how I get on and may look to introduce a second one down the line but I think this should be good enough for now. 

I'll keep you posted once I receive everything and hook it all up. 

Thanks again auxinput!

Would it be worth buying a decent HDMI cable? I've read conflicting articles about high end HDMI cables vs basic ones. 

The Satellite is connected to the TV via HDMI, and the TV is connected to the DAC via digital cable (because of Netflix being played through the TV app). I tried the digital cable straight into the Satellite and it seems to give the same sound as when plugged into the TV.

But with the digital cable plugged into the TV, the input is going from the Satellite through the HDMI to the TV, and then through the digital cable to the DAC... hence my question about upgrading the HDMI cable.

If it is worth spending a bit more on a decent HDMI, is this one any good:

https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/audioquest-pearl-hdmi-high-speed-v1.4.html

Then there's the next one up:

https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/audioquest-chocolate-hdmi-v1.4.html

Thanks!

Thanks auxinput.

I think I’ll get the AQ Chocolate as they sell in the U.K. so I will save on international delivery charges.

But it’s good to know about the Neotech for when I need a decent HDMI for myself one day.

Wanted to give you an update. 

The Klipsch R-112SW is awesome!! Bass is deep, rich, and clean. It’s genuienly amongst the best lows I’ve heard, I’m very happy!

Movies now have that theatre effect that I was looking for, and together with the Yamaha’s the setup seems to be complete. 

I have the gain on the Klipsch at half and the low pass at around 120hz. 

What does the phase switch do? I have two settings: 0 and 180 and it looks like each number has a degrees symbol next to it. It’s currently on zero because I didn’t touch it since taking it out of the box. 

Also, when reading up on speaker position and those nulls you spoke of, I came across acoustic panels and bass traps.

Do you/have you used these before? Would you recommend that I explore this addition or is it overkill?

Are there any other ways to enhance my sound?

I don’t think anyone in the house would let me put up any acoustic absorbers, diffusers, or bass traps anyway lol.

But I’m definitely interested in other types of upgrades. Please tell me more..