Which would be better, the Paradigm Persona 3Fs or the Dynaudio Focus 60 XD speakers?

@mmeysarosh

+1 Exactly my experience. Exotic diaphragms - especially rigid light weight metallic or ceramic ones are NOT the holy grail. I still prefer the internally damped sound of pulp paper and soft fabric woven material usually doped with a damping chemical. Constrained layer damping is the latest approach in these designs. I find they hav a noise floor and clarity far superior to anything else. The limited bandwidth and heavy material can be compensated for without a super powerful motor and larger voice coil. Only drawback are they are expensive to make. A light weight cone will RING making a hashy sound and hiding detail - but they are cheap to make as the motor can be small - being cheap they are very popular outsourced parts by speaker builders.

Great analogy mmeysarosh!

As a Paradigm dealer, exotic Beryllium cones, as well as an ATC dealer, paper woofer, and soft dome tweeter, i say it is as  Mmeysarosh says it is in the details.

To say a speaker is better just because it has a specific cone material is not looking at the entire design.

Beryllium is the holly grail out of most metals as it is extremely light and stiff and therefore makes the perfect piston, the metal is self damped and doesn't ring like aluminium or titanium, and the drivers are state of the art in terms of basket design, magnet and voice coil structure, they are very expensive drivers.

The clarity of the Paradigms  is spectacular and along with the Acuton Diamond drivers these are the most resolute speakers around, however, with all of that resolution you have to work hard to create a musically satisfying sound by using electronics and sources which can work to create a musical sound to create a balance that most listeners will enjoy.

The ATC sound stunningly natural, do they have the same clarity no they do not, but boy do they sound good in a way that draws you in, and they still have great resolution and a very holographic sound stage.

mmeysarosh: Thank you for your careful explanation. It still does not quite address my concerns. My thoughts are that a signal from whatever source component must be brought through an imperfect path to energize diaphragms vibrating in our listening rooms for us to enjoy reproduced music.

We can think of this imperfect path as having various choke points in it. Cables, both interconnect and speaker, need to be decent. Pre-amplification and amplification add their own issues. Then we get to the speaker where the signal must pass through physical electrical components before finally being handed off to the drivers, which themselves have issues regarding motor design and diaphragm material. Let’s forget about issues such as speaker enclosures and room acoustics.

I fully understand and applaud the efforts to improve diaphragm materials. This will go a long way to reducing ill effects from that particular choke point. However, I don’t understand the same lack of interest for technologies that completely eliminate choke points.

By this I mean digital signal processing (DSP) breakthroughs that allow OEMs to simply throw away the electrical components that make up a traditional crossover. For years we’ve been told how critical these components can be, and how we need to spend extra $ to get better ones. Now they can be set aside altogether. I submit that this is a development of some interest and one we should pay attention to going forward.

Proper implementation of DSP not only allows OEMs to ditch (and thereby save money) hardwired circuitry, from my poor understanding it also allows correction of things such as time alignment and phase issues between individual drivers in a multi-way loudspeaker. It also allows consumers to save money on cabling and grandiose external amplification, while delivering a pristine signal to the speaker drivers. What’s not to like?

audiotroy: So your shop sells the Persona and ATC series? What are your high end brands? ;-) Seriously, I’d love to be able to drop in and play some music there!

I do have some questions about the Persona line.

It appears that the tweeters and midranges are uniform across the floor standing speakers in the Persona line. It appears that the Persona B uses the same tweeter, but uses a woofer that is an amalgam of the diaphragm in the tower series midrange and the surround and motor structure in the 7" woofers in the the tower series

I get that the Persona Bs are $3,500 each. I note that the Persona 3Fs have enclosures over twice the size of the Bs and throw in two 7" woofers while being $5,000 each, an increase of $1,500 each. When we get to the Persona 5Fs, the enclosures are marginally larger than the 3Fs, add one 7" woofer, and yet the price rises by $3,500 each? Ouch!

However much I strain my imagination, I cannot see how a pair of 5Fs are a better value than a pair of 3Fs and a Persona SUB. The SUB has SIX additional 8" woofers, plus a substantial cabinet, plus built in amplification and DSP to fine tune it to your room. Indeed, it seems to me that a 3F and SUB combo could punch up there with a pair of 7Fs while being far less visually intrusive. If you want to bring the 9H into the discussion, I could add an additional SUB to my system and still have US$12,000 in my bank account.

Any thoughts?

My initial post was worded poorly. I meant I only heard the C20, but the comparable speaker in the new Contour line would be the C30. To your point, as far as hardware goes, there really wouldn't be a cost reduction by getting rid-off hardwired circuits, as it'll be taken over by internal amplification and DSP circuits, as you can see from the added cost of the XD series speakers. The original Focus was Dynaudio's entry level line, and priced well below other lines
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As to if more manufacturers should focus on it, I believe European brands have been doing this for a while now (Audio Physic and some non "high end" brands), it's just that, they are not very well known in America.  American high end brands are perhaps a bit behind in this area.  For boutique manufacturers, they may lack the electronics and DSP know how to make good sounding digital crossovers, as you need significant software engineering as well as acoustic design knowledge.  So I believe it's difficult for small operations to hire the subject matter experts, cause they'd ask for big money.  Hence you see a big company like Paradigm doing this.  You get the best of both worlds with the 9H I think, active DSP controlled subwoofer section and passive mid/tweeter sections.

For the original question of which is more important? I think it all depends on the implementation.  Like I mentioned in one of my other threads, I heard the Endeavor Audio E3 speakers recently, and while utilizing pretty much off the shelf drivers, and a very basic cabinet design...the quality of sound these guys came up with is just incredible.  It's such a sweet, great sounding speaker! 

So it's all in the overall design.  In the future if bigger electronics companies start licensing out DSP circuits, you may see more boutique high end brands utilizing these circuits in theit designs.