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Questioning the need for a DAC

Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
whitestix OP
685 posts
 
Gents,
I a guess a few folks agree that the Oppo is pretty good kit, me included, probably with younger and better ears than I have.  I used a Toslink connection when I demo'd the Gungnir, no USB.  BTW, with my Jolida FX DAC, I noticed no difference when streaming from my external HD>iMac to my system except that I never had an issue with hum with the Toslink IC, but often did with the USB.  

I received the CIA DAC/Power supply a bit ago so I am going to give it a listen on this rainy Friday night in Sacramento.   I will get back to you with my impressions.  Cheers, Mark

whitestix OP
685 posts
 
By gosh, I got the CIA DAC hooked up in a flash and my initial impression, listening to a great Peter Beets CD and the venerable Getz/Gilberto CD in the last hour, I sense that I am hearing a degree of clarity and detail that I did't with the Oppo alone.  The articulation of some double bass notes struck as something I hadn't heard before on the the Getz recording.  Nothing profound, but my initial impression, quite clearly, is that that the diminuative Channel Islands DAC and power supply combo is quite worthwhile indeed.  

A point to note in my comparison with the Gungnir.  I am hearing nothing like what I was hearing when auditioned the Schiit piece, but then smart guys say it needs a lot of time to break-in.  My CIA DAC is already broken in so that may explain why my experience with the Schiit was unimpressive.  Cheers, Mark

psickerson
97 posts
 
Erik,

how does a Schiit DAC like the yggy remove jitter?  
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,378 posts
 
@whitestix You are correct, you didn't really hear the Gungnir since you didn't give it 100 hours to break-in. I was fortunate to have a friend bring his broken-in Gungnir over for demo vs. my Oppo 105D and another friend's Chord Hugo. I bought a Gungnir and have been impressed with the improvements I hear. Others who've heard both here agree. 

Separately, I respectfully disagree with the conclusions that @williewonka presents about the using USB with Gungnir.  It really depends on the source and its USB implementation! Yes, most USB outputs suck and that's why USB-SPDIF converters make an improvement with those devices. But that's where the facts end. 4 or 5 years those converters made much more sense than they do today.
The better approach IMHO is to use a source that already has a superior USB output such as the microRendu and its server performance via USB will negate the need for additional expenditures on the bandaid USB-to-SPDIF converter. If you read up on John Swenson's work on Regen and the microRendu you will understand my conclusions better and then make your own considering the whole picture. Cheers,
Spencer
bjcatanzaro's avatar
bjcatanzaro
2 posts
 
I'll repeat what I mentioned to a presenter at the recent Audio Show in New Port Beach -- T.H.E. Show. The presentation was about reducing distortion. During the presentation, the presenter demonstrated various forms of distortion and possible solutions. The funny thing was --- as a 71 year-old dude who has been an audiophile for the past 30+ years --- I could not hear any differences in the demonstrated approaches. At the end of the presentation I thanked the presented and mentioned that as I've gotten older the amount of distortion I can hear has been greatly reduced --- and therefore the amount of money I have [recently] spent or would otherwise need to spend in the coming years on higher-end gear that produced less and less distortion -- will be considerably less.  So I'm now saving money, and my wife would tell you that's a good thing. Also, I have an OPPO 103D and also a BenchMark Media DAC2 HGC. I have connected both of these Toslink and Coaxial outputs to my BenchMark Amplifier AHB2. I could not distinguish an differences in sound quality, although I believe that these [high-quality] components are the last I need to purchase.

regards,
Ben, Grass Valley, Ca.
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