Hello,
The mods to my Oppo were done my Stereo Dave's Audio in Portland and involved some propriety changes to the power supply and DAC. They cost $375 and were a significant improvement. My room has two layers of sheetrock with Green Glue in between with significant absorption treatment on the walls and corners but I don't know that it would be considered "dark" Well-damped, for sure. I mentioned both Oppo's in the same sentence because they of course both have an internal DAC, are relatively low priced, and both are on Stereophile's list of Class A DAC's.
I forgot an experience i had at the CA Audio Show a few years back. I was listening to nice VSA speakers in a room that had a Bricasti CD player. The music sounded great, indeed. The exhibitor, an East Coast audio store, also had a Jolida FX Glass DAC which I was keen to hear. They set it up so they could alternate the music through the Briscasti and then the Jolida with a switch. This they did no less than a dozen times with three different recordings. Towards the end of the session, I looked at the two guys doing the demo at the back of the room and simply shrugged by shoulders because I could discern no noticeable difference in sound with either DAC. They too came to the same conclusion. The Bricasti DAC was $8500 and the Jolida, which I bought on the spot, cost $500.
|
We audiophiles are all on a question of sonic improvement, me being no exception. As Jond rightfully observes, I am at a great place to be with my system, more so that I have been in many years. Still, not to belabor the point, I am intrigued with what folks are experiencing with the addition of a DAC to a system with an already modern CD transport (i.e., an Oppo or something even better). I will say that the benefit of the modest upgrade that Stereo Dave did to my Oppo 103 was absolutely evident within the first few notes of playing a CD after I got it back. A profound difference for a modest cost, no question. However, in contrast, with or without the Schiit Gungnir in my system, I perceived no difference. Just my take. Cheers.
|
Hi Randy,
My test of the addition of the Schiit Gungir to my system was rather straightforward. I played the Oppo straight into my preamp and then inserted the Schiit into the system. My preamp is a Don Sachs 6SN7-based preamp and an upgraded CJ MF-80 amp, with Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers in a well-treated room. I had a Consonance tube CD player before the Oppo 103 and the improvement in sound with the Oppo was absolutely immediately noticeable and profound. I think the inescapable conclusion, to my 63-year old ears, is that the Oppo is a very worthy CD player.
In defiance of my own logic, I bought a Channel Islands DAC/power supply today to see if I find some improvement with it. I will report back on this thread if I hear some improvement with the new DAC.
Two final thoughts. My frame of reference for upgrades is that if I don't hear a noticeable sonic improvement with the substitution of a new piece of gear within a few notes then it probably isn't worthwhile (allowing for break-in, of course). Some might see this as an imperious judgment, but I have experienced it with the Oppo and with lots of tube rolling in my system, and with a couple of IC's. My sense is that if I have to work to hear the "improvement", it probably doesn't exist. Secondly, I think that current CD players even the price point of my Oppo, and tons come to mind, all have pretty good internal DAC's, for which the addition of an external DAC might be superfluous.
Randy, you note that you don't like CD's much. My audio pal has $10K Brodmann speakers, VPI TT with a fine tone arm and $2K MC cartridge, and the $20K top-of-the line ARC amp/preamp combo. His digital source is a ~$5K Modwright-modified Oppo CD player. We recently did an A/B comparison of the same music comparing the analogue and digital versions, back and forth between the same cuts in real time. Lots of the music was new analogue Blue Notes issues, 45rpm, and the same PCM recordings and a few SACD's. We did at least a dozen comparisons and the uniform conclusion we reached was that there was no perceptible difference between the formats... not on one recording, not on any recording. I have an upgraded SOTA TT, with a very fine tonearm and Dynavector MC cartridge, with a thousand jazz LP's, but I haven't played it in months as I find no sonic improvement over my digital versions of the same music.
Anyway, that is my take. Cheers.
|
Hi Randy,
Sorry if I misunderstand you comments. I thought your post and my response was pretty straight forward. What did I miss? |
Gents,
I a guess a few folks agree that the Oppo is pretty good kit, me included, probably with younger and better ears than I have. I used a Toslink connection when I demo'd the Gungnir, no USB. BTW, with my Jolida FX DAC, I noticed no difference when streaming from my external HD>iMac to my system except that I never had an issue with hum with the Toslink IC, but often did with the USB.
I received the CIA DAC/Power supply a bit ago so I am going to give it a listen on this rainy Friday night in Sacramento. I will get back to you with my impressions. Cheers, Mark
|
Hey Randy,
I did miss you point about CD's... it was just one particular CD you didn't like. I share the same views on vinyl, my friend. I will report back on the usefulness of the CIA DAC. Cheers, Mark
ptss,
Thanks for the information. I have used a pricey PL conditioner for years for my non-power components. I can't say that I notice any difference straight into the wall vs. through the conditioner. |
By gosh, I got the CIA DAC hooked up in a flash and my initial impression, listening to a great Peter Beets CD and the venerable Getz/Gilberto CD in the last hour, I sense that I am hearing a degree of clarity and detail that I did't with the Oppo alone. The articulation of some double bass notes struck as something I hadn't heard before on the the Getz recording. Nothing profound, but my initial impression, quite clearly, is that that the diminuative Channel Islands DAC and power supply combo is quite worthwhile indeed.
A point to note in my comparison with the Gungnir. I am hearing nothing like what I was hearing when auditioned the Schiit piece, but then smart guys say it needs a lot of time to break-in. My CIA DAC is already broken in so that may explain why my experience with the Schiit was unimpressive. Cheers, Mark
|
Spenser,
I reckon you are correct about my experience with the Gungnir. With a few hours on the Channel Islands DAC, I sense I am hearing more detail and clarity than without it. Very happy with this little gem and power supply. Mark |
I happen to think that the Oppo gear is really quite good and the 103D, with a bit of mods or even stock, is just very good. Oppo gear seems to be like Schiit gear, everybody likes it. It is grand that here are lots of $500-$1000 CD players around today that just sound wonderful. I am thinking that good DACs can improve the sound even more. It is amazing the sort of fine system one can cobble together for, say, a couple of grand, that will fill your room with great sounds. The new ELACs might be part of that kit. Cheers, Mark
|
My final post, lads. I had some pals over today whose ears I trust, much younger than me, all with a mortgage-load of audio gear. It was easy to switch between the Oppo 103 straight-in to the Don Sach's preamp vs. run through the Channel Islands DAC. I provided the "ear lube" via a local micro-brew pub for the fellas and it was much appreciated by the feedback.
The conclusion is clear: On an A/B test, no listener was able to identify the difference in sound with or without the DAC in any consistent fashion. Often as not, a listener who thought he could perceive a difference, was surprised to learn that the DAC was out in the loop. I personally, switching the selector, might have perceived a 5% difference in improvement in the performance of my system with the DAC, but that might be my desire to validate my expenditure for the DAC. As I continue to perform this comparison after my pals left, I do think there is a maybe 5% improvement in the sound overall, with maybe a bit more clarity, but it is quite subtle.
So, the conclusion I have reached is that you have a pretty good DAC, or an Oppo upgraded by somebody (mine was upgraded by Stereo Dave and the upgrade was instantly apparent), the sonic value of a DAC in the sub-$1000 price range might be an expense of dubious value.
BTW, I upgraded pair of Mundorf Silver Oils output caps for Jupiter Copper caps in my preamp at the same time I hooked up the CIA DAC so that might have swayed my initial favorable impression the DAC. The Jupiters caps are a 10% improvement in the sound of the already excellent Don Sachs preamp -- by far the best I have heard in my system.
Cheers, Mark
|
I did a A/B test with the CIA DAC/power supply vs. straight in from the Oppo (it was just twist of the selector knob on the preamp) and honestly I didn't find any noticeable difference in sound in a 100+ comparisons with lots of different music. It is what it is.
|
Good point, Aux, I might have to swap some IC's around to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
|
Thanks to all who provided their views on this issue. I used Morrow IC's all the way around in my system and with or without the CIA DAC and external power supply in the loop, the sound from my Oppo was indistinguisable. Same same, no difference that my ears could perceive. I have employed a dozen different power cords in various components in my system and was never able to perceive a difference with any of them. Zero, nada. However, my tube guru Don Sachs, who is a denier about a lot of tweaks, claims he can perceive power cord differences and his ears I trust so I don't discount that younger, better trained, ears than mine do find improvements with various power cords. I have a Powervar 12 amp power conditioner to which all my gear, except for the amp, uses as a power source, the same power conditioner that Don uses in his system.
Cheers,
Mark |
Aux,
Fair enough, I reckon that increasingly pricey IC's might reveal some nuances to my chain of audio gear. No question, many experience this and good for them. The difference between a Radio Shack IC or power cord and the same from Morrow Audio is a no-brainer, the clarity and definition is quite apparent. Moving to the realm of cabling beyond that price point, in my experience, is of dubious value.
There are two adages that come to mind. First, you get what you pay for. Second, you pays your money and takes your chances. My view is that you ought to try every tweak you have available... so long as you get a money-back guarantee. Let your ears be your guide. Cheers.
|
Willie,
I respect your methodical approach to listening for nuances and details regarding cabling, but that isn't the way I roll. I have a stressful career in which I have to remain focused on every detail, and the last thing I care to do is have to bring that same focus and concentration to discerning nuances between cables. Just the opposite, in fact. And goofy expensive cables are not going to grace my system as a matter of principle, as I am very aware of the law of diminishing returns. For my CIA A/B test, all the Morrow cabling was the same and run in for a couple of years. I stand by personal observation that the DAC in my Oppo 103D is not going to be much improved upon by a sub-$1000 DAC. However, if one hears an improvement with the addition of a DAC, then good for them and my observations are irrelevant.
My audio credo is very simple, if a bit peremptory: If it don't hear a significant difference within a couple measures of music, it probably isn't worth it. (This after 100 hours of break in for cabling and for new electronics). If I have to labor to hear a difference, then it takes the joy out of the experience and I am probably deluding myself into thinking I am hearing an improvement. I have SR fuses and honestly can't tell a difference in sound over a cheap fuse. I tried Shakti blocks and SR "dots" on the wall (and subjected myself to a lot ribbing from my audiophile pals who participated in the test of efficacy of the dots), and a boatload of other tweaks and sent them back for a refund. However, in the mid-80's, I was one of Mod Squad's first customers for Tip Toes (spikes for speakers), and the improvement in sound was immediate and profound. Now Art Dudley says spikes detract from the sound so everybody has to figure it out for themselves. Fooling around with these tweaks is a lot of fun and can sometimes be very worthwhile, but in my experience, mostly not. Look for a money-back deal if you try them.
To wit, I added a used McCormack DNA .05 amp to my system yesterday and OMG, the improvement in sound was thoroughly evident within 30 seconds! It just blows me away how detailed and dynamic the music now sounds, with amazing LF slam, fading away to dead silence. It is the finest amp I have ever heard in my system and I have had some very good ones (Modwright, Moscode 300, Berning, H-K II & V, various CJ, Belles, Bel Canto, etc.)
Thanks again for your contribution to this thread. Cheers, Mark
|
