Mapman whats missing- realistic sound quality, the ability to allow listener to feel the emotion of the music. The ability to easily hear the mix ie pick out the individual instruments and vocals along with the added studio work. Realistic image size and dynamic range.The at ease at any SPL the ability to sound wonderful out of sweet spot and through out home. Extreme lack of listening fatigue. A clear real sounding vocal ability the ability to do this all on massively low power. Extreme reliability and ease of service in field by owner. Today most all of this is missing and if present only a small part of it.
Loudspeakers have we really made that much progress since the 1930s?
Since I have a slight grasp on the history or loudspeaker design. And what is possible with modern. I do wonder if we have really made that much progress. I have access to some of the most modern transducers and design equipment. I also have large collection of vintage. I tend to spend the most time listening to my 1930 Shearer horns. For they do most things a good bit better than even the most advanced loudspeakers available. And I am not the only one to think so I have had a good num of designers retailers etc give them a listen. Sure weak points of the past are audible. These designs were meant to cover frequency ranges at the time. So adding a tweeter moves them up to modern performance. To me the tweeter has shown the most advancement in transducers but not so much the rest. Sure things are smaller but they really do not sound close to the Shearer. http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm
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john, We’ll have to agree to disagree on that, much of which is very subjective. I experience all those things regularly on both my own and other systems I hear with modern speaker technology. Doing it with low power these days is perhaps the biggest challenge because most people do not want or have room for very large highly efficient full range speakers. But still I have heard some like that at shows. Again changing times and different needs. But I understand and share the nostalgia for quality innovative products of the past. A Victrola is one of the things on my bucket list and I do have a soft spot for tube gear still and an interest at least in high efficiency speakers. |
Johnk gave a good description of the sonic advantages of good vintage speakers, one borne out in my experience as well. I would just emphasize the realistic dynamic swings that a good vintage speaker can provide, both low-level, subtle shifts in dynamics, and loud-level dynamic peaks. All without sounding stressed or compressed. |
Innovation in any field addresses the changing needs or wants of the times. Any "good reasons" may not be at service in search of the very best in audio reproduction, but seems more a consequence of how to work around obstacles that are also associated with convenience, size constraints, consumption issues, design demands, etc; oftentimes status quo is the desired goal, if it even is. I’m not saying there isn’t innovation at play here (no pun intended), on the contrary, but to simply bow to this kind of innovation as "the good reason" is to potentially shortchange the goal into audio reproduction and its further developement, as I see it. I can’t speak for johnk, but perhaps part of what he finds "has been forgotten" may be addressed in Robert Harley’s review of Magico’s statement product, "Ultimate" (the only horn speakers in their product range): Clearly, loudspeakers are a major source of detail erasure. It’s easy to imagine how large and complex power amplifiers, which must convert a low-level incoming signal to huge voltage swings backed by hefty current delivery, scrub off a bit of the signal’s finest information. It’s even easier to imagine how the conversion of electron flow in the voice coil into magnetism, the conversion of that magnetism to the large motion of a relatively massive diaphragm, and the motion of the diaphragm itself cause the smallest and most fragile components of the signal to disappear or become attenuated, while the more robust signal components pass through relatively unscathed. But it is precisely these micro-aspects of the signal that contain that last bit of information we need to identify the sound as being live rather than a reproduction. A musical signal reproduced through a horn-loaded system undergoes an identical process, but on a much smaller scale. The compression drivers’ extremely powerful magnets require only a tiny fraction of the current of direct-radiating drivers to produce their miniscule diaphragm excursions. It seems intuitive that this roughly ten-fold reduction in electrical and dynamic forces allows the process to be performed with higher precision. http://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/Ultimate/MAGICO_Ultimate.pdf It’s worth noting (through the remaining review) Mr. Harley’s impressions of the Ultimate system to "trespass" the line from reproduction into a live event. This may not be an exclusive claim, nor is named million dollar speaker system representative of all horn speakers, but you nonetheless feel his admiration of something that pushes the boundaries of audio reproduction. This mayn’t be innovation either, but it’s a refinement/evolvement of horn principles founded many years ago, and ones you would wish explored more widely as well as economically accessible (certainly compared to the Ultimate system). |
I have to agree with Mapman ,having owned lots of vintage gear including speakers ( still own for investment only),,Altec/JBL/Jensen/Tannoy/Stephens and a couple pieces of Western Electric they are never my go to speakers.Id say most will never own highend vintage speakers and most I bet wouldn't want to if having the choice between that and say Magico,Kharma,Wilson,Raidho etc etc...I have no idea whats behind the technology and dont really care,they just sound better to me. |
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