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Retail Buying - Reality Check

Like all of you at some point in time, I caught the Audio and HT bug. I started out at the usual places - Hi Fi Buys, Best Buys, etc. and moved on to the niche, locally owned hi end audio and HT boutiques. There I met generally more knowledgeable salesmen (no women yet). I also started doing my homework out on the web and came upon great sites like Audiogon and AVS Forum to name a few.

Your knowledge and experience has been invaluable to me. Unfettered by the product lines you have to sell, you provide a far more level playing field of unbiased opinion.

Here's my dilemma: I am a small business owner myself, and I value local market presence and customer relations. I'm even willing to pay a small premium for this intangible. However, when the quotes came back from 3 different retailers in Atlanta ($65 -80k), they were all for MSRP plus tax plus design install and misc. such as clips and straps ($250-$500 worth!)

Now most of the hi end equipment today has "burn in" periods of several to hundreds of hours before peak operating performance is obtained. So, buying new at full MSRP also meant getting inferior performance for the necessary burn times. So no big benefit (except some warranties) to buy new.

By purchasing from sellers on sites like Audiogon, and purchasing nearly new or sometimes new products, I have saved $16,000 plus $1,000 in sales taxes on approximately $50,000 of my quoted MSRP prices. I'm not done yet. I also have the flexibility of buying the exact product line I want, not just what my store has to offer. There is great pressure in the retail setting to go "one stop shopping" at your store of choice.

I understand these stores need to make a profit. However, 50% markups on items that they don't keep in stock and have to special order, seems out of line to me.

Caveat emptor is certainly a key consideration in on-line purchasing, but to date, through careful checking of prior seller transactions, prudent payment techniques and telephone conversations with the seller to allow me to make some kind of character call, I have had nothing but outstanding, as promised transactions.

I hired a HT acoustical designer and a certified installer and I couldn't be happier, except for one thing. I still feel a little guilty about not buying from the guy with the storefront who spent time with me. I just wish they'd recognize where they do and don't add value and charge accordingly.

Anyway thanks guys, for the great education and advice you've provided me.

What say you?
rogocop
rogocop OP
9 posts
 
Well, a lot of similar themes spiced with a few dissonant contrarians. I thank you for all of them.

Without trying to defend myself to foreverhifi2000, let me say this about that.

The system I am ending up with is essentially the system spec'd. out by the retailers with a few major improvements. Because I have money in my pocket, and not in the retailers, from my web buys, I was able to to run my B&W Nautilus 801s (that I bought for $8k instead of $11)with a Mac 602 and the B&W center with a Mac 352 (mono) and my 4 surrounds with 2 Mac 352s instead of the MC206 which they spec'd. I was able to buy a Marantz VP 12S2 for $9k instead of the $13k I was quoted. The theater, acoustics and some equipment selections are being designed by Dennis Erskine of Design Cinema Privee. His skill and knowledge leaves anyone I talked to in a store in the dust. He's not Carl the installer who graduated from Bubba's Window Tinting and Car Stereo Shop to HT installs.

So, I'm not buying that I missed something in this experience or that as a penny pinching, short sighted newbie I failed to see the forest through the trees. I think I've maxxed out my dollar value pretty well. Without these savings I would not have been able to afford people like Dennis or the Mac 602 and and it's little cousin 352s.

Personally, I'm not a haggler for every nickel kind of guy. Sure I could have told these guys that I wasn't going to pay full retail, but I was already in the hole because of where the negotiations were starting from (MSRP). They'd would have made me feel like I was taking bread out of their kids' mouths for a few % discount, when with very little haggling, Audiogon sellers are selling at or near retailer's costs. I guess they saw a sucker coming through the door.

Someone asked if people know my margins... My answer - The ones who do their homework do. I respect them for it. And, in my market place I kill my competition because I give more value for the dollar than they do. Open up the Atlanta Journal Constitution Real Estate section on any Sunday and see my add "Dare to Compare at Carlyle Square". So honestly, I walk the talk.

This has been a blast! Thanks for the input.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Where else are negotiations supposed to start from besides MSRP? And there would be more bread in those dealers' kids' mouths had they sold you something. Far be it from me to get on anyone's case for buying through Audiogon, please don't get me wrong. And not everyone enjoys negotiations, and I understand that. But frankly, the discounts you got buying used on the 'net don't seem that far below what you might have gotten new with a warranty had you been game for a little bargaining. I'm glad it seems to have worked out for you, but don't be under any illusions that what you did wasn't using your local dealers for their demonstration facilities and advice, and then take your show on the road to sellers who didn't need that overhead expense to get your business.
edesilva
768 posts
 
Foreverhifi2000, your response cracked me up!

Beautiful parody of the egotistical self-righteous attitude that typifies why I so dislike high end stores! Very, very funny. You captured that I-know-so-much-more-than-you essence so well--you know, the whole thing that drives consumers like me away sooo fast. I just loved it.

The caps were a bit over the top tho'--kind of made you look like you were ranting or something.
tok20000's avatar
tok20000
608 posts
 
If you are dropping $60k to $80k on a system, you SHOULD get at LEAST a 20% discount off of MSRP from a dealer. Especially if that dealer is doing the installation.

This is what I would suggest:

Contact:
http://www.sounddecisionsllc.com/contact_us/contact_us_1.htm

These guys are located in Birmingham, AL which is not that far from you. I used to work for them and they do great work.

They should give you a quote of at least 20% off MSRP (especially if they do the installation).

Let me know how things work out.

You can email me at: [email protected]
AOL is bouncing emails from Audiogon and it is driving me nuts.

Sincerely,

KF
rogocop OP
9 posts
 
Zaikesman,

Believe or not, I went into the stores hoping to find quality products and expert advice at competitive prices. Had I been able to do this I would have bought new and paid more. No problemo. What I found was quality products (with a unwavering bias towards that which they sold), varying degrees of expertise (from brilliant and impassioned (I really liked him because of his obvious love of his craft) to someone who didn't know the difference between the gain control and crossover switch on a Velodyne sub. (He kept insisting the switch (the gain) was fully turned up when I asked him what frequency it was crossing with the mains.) and laughable prices. It was only at that point when I had real bids in my hands that I thought of looking seriously at alternative markets. I stopped going by the stores, although now the salesmen keep calling wanting to "earn my business". I don't waste anyoneone's time intentionally.
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