Yet Another Post About Power Conditioners!
OK, OK, so I know there are eleventy billion posts about what power conditioners are better than others. I've read them all...yes, all eleventy billion! But, I am still wondering which one I should chose.
Here's the backdrop: I have four dedicated, 20-amp outlets. There's a bunch of noise on them. So bad I can hear a local hip hop station clearly playing through my Greenwave Dirty Noise Filter w/speaker. I use an assortment of very high-end, and expensive power cables,. I use very expensive, high-end outlets. My system consists of a Mobile Fidelity Ultradeck, a PS Audio GCHP phone stage, an AudioLab 6000CDT transport, a Burson Audio 3x Reference headphone amp, and Focal Clear headphones. Everything is connected with really good interconnects, most of which are balanced. Having downsized from a much larger, much more power system, these nuggets suit my current needs just fine.
Still that AC noise. Given the size of my system, it's silly to spend mega-bucks on a regenerator, or the expensive balanced isolation transformer PCs. Based on my research, I've narrowed my choices to these in the $1500 and under price range:
Furman Elite 15 or 20 PFi (used)
AudioQuest Niagara 1200
PS Audio Dectect
Core Power Equi=Core 1000 or 1800 (no return policy, ugh)
Shunyata Hydra 8 (used)
Decware ZLC (10-12 month wait, ugh)
NuPrime Pure AC-4
Toroid BTE500E or 1000E Balanced Transformer
Tripplite ISO500 or 500HG Isolation Transformer
Torus TOT Mini Balanced Transformer
Yes, that's an extensive list, but my search reveals these are the top choices by many folks, as well as a few, little-known contenders.
If you have actual experience with any of these--and have compared them to other PCs, your opinion or recommendations would be appreciated greatly. You're welcome to suggest others, too, if you've done hands-on comparisons.
Here's the backdrop: I have four dedicated, 20-amp outlets. There's a bunch of noise on them. So bad I can hear a local hip hop station clearly playing through my Greenwave Dirty Noise Filter w/speaker. I use an assortment of very high-end, and expensive power cables,. I use very expensive, high-end outlets. My system consists of a Mobile Fidelity Ultradeck, a PS Audio GCHP phone stage, an AudioLab 6000CDT transport, a Burson Audio 3x Reference headphone amp, and Focal Clear headphones. Everything is connected with really good interconnects, most of which are balanced. Having downsized from a much larger, much more power system, these nuggets suit my current needs just fine.
Still that AC noise. Given the size of my system, it's silly to spend mega-bucks on a regenerator, or the expensive balanced isolation transformer PCs. Based on my research, I've narrowed my choices to these in the $1500 and under price range:
Furman Elite 15 or 20 PFi (used)
AudioQuest Niagara 1200
PS Audio Dectect
Core Power Equi=Core 1000 or 1800 (no return policy, ugh)
Shunyata Hydra 8 (used)
Decware ZLC (10-12 month wait, ugh)
NuPrime Pure AC-4
Toroid BTE500E or 1000E Balanced Transformer
Tripplite ISO500 or 500HG Isolation Transformer
Torus TOT Mini Balanced Transformer
Yes, that's an extensive list, but my search reveals these are the top choices by many folks, as well as a few, little-known contenders.
If you have actual experience with any of these--and have compared them to other PCs, your opinion or recommendations would be appreciated greatly. You're welcome to suggest others, too, if you've done hands-on comparisons.
79 responses Add your response
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Tried the Puritan 156...did not like it...acted as a 'Loudness Switch' on a Receiver...boosted the bass but reduced the highs. EQUI=CORE is what I settled on...loved the one so much I bought a second...one for the power amps and one for the front end. Also purchased two DEEP-CORE 18OO's to use with them which improved the sound even more... |
Had a Furman and discovered that I didn’t like it when there was a problem with it and I used the old Tripplite. Stunned at the improvement in sound. The music was much harsher with the Furman. With the Tripplite everything sounded better. Music sounded more relaxed, smoother, better in all ways. Got rid of the Furman and tried a Shunyata. Still using it. Not really good at analyzing or describing the differences. I go with what sounds better. |
EquiTech. Your research ain’t complete unless you have looked into balanced power. https://equitech.com/ AudioQuest Niagra 7000 is also balanced power. (The other AudioQuest Niagras are not.) |
Hi Output555 This response is been prompted as a result of Outputt555 comments on Shunyata and “Snake Oil!” I am not going to presume to tell you what product(s) are best or best value as there are numerous solutions each with their own sales pitch’s and engineering prowess! However, of all of the major power conditioner providers and ancillary products available, Shunyata is the one company that always leads with science, clear thoughtful engineering and numerous patents. Shunyata is led by Caelin Gabriel and he has revolutionized the power conditioning, cabling etc.world with his products such that they have become the go to standard for many surgical applications as well as recording industry usage, playback etc. I spent many months following Shunyata and the other leading providers, including communications with Shunyatas leaders, before going with a system wide purchase of multiple Shunyata products including their then current power conditioner. 5 years later I couldn’t be happier with my decision and the $$ and musically value I have attained. Cheers Jerry B PS……Give Grant or Richard call at Shunyata. They are both very will informed and will not give you any sales BS. |
To j-wall: Yeah, Shunyata seems to get universal love. I've decided the Hydra is older tech, going back 20 years, so I'm looking for something newer used. I like PS Audio and Paul, a lot. There seem to fans of their regenerators and detractors. The Power Plant Premier seems abundant on the used market. |
@output555 : It is not anything mystical, black magic, etc. Nor is it irrational. Simple, albeit theoretical, valid ideas presenting a new approach to audio systems. Take a few minutes to read and absorb the material. Look at the simple animation video and then think about audio. Then think about the terms Fourier, harmonic series, resonance. I acknowledge that ADD-Powr might not be what you are looking for. It is not a power conditioner per se - it does not address AC noise or e-m interference. It is not a filter nor an isolation transformer. ADD-Powr only addresses the lack of harmonic content in the AC generation and delivery from the power breaker to your audio system. From what I read at the web site, it is pretty powerful and works very, very well. It has been used by mastering studios and even in live concert venues to great success. What makes them special is that it completely raises the level of sonic performance in my audio system and thereby raises my enjoyment by 100%. I have compared them to the PS Audio P-3. It does lower the AC noise floor for quieter listening, But lacks any of the positives of my Sorcer and Wizard. Together, installed in parallel from the 110 vac, is quite a good thing! |
I'm with @dvddesigner knowing Caelin's background and what he does for the science community as well as their openness to discuss their products should give you comfort. They are far from snake oil and should be the last one on the list of "snake oil" brands. Snake Oil is the equivalent phrasing of fake news and should both be removed from modern vocabulary. Anyways, I run a P10 and once a year I unplug it and plug everything into the wall, then I plug everything back into the P10, the P10 always stays year after year. PS Audio makes great regenerators, buy used. |
@thyce First we don’t know how the electrician, 25 years ago, installed and wired the so called "dedicated" ground rod. The electrician may have installed and connected the ground rod to the existing GEC, (Grounding Electrode System), of the electrical service using a minimum #6awg copper conductor. thyce said: That ground rod you said is just for your audio equipment absolutely must not be connected to anything but the houses main ground rod, and only if it is 6 ft or closer to the main grounding rod.25 years ago, I would agree. 25 years ago the new so called "dedicated" ground rod should have been connected to the existing GES with a minimum #6awg copper conductor. and only if it is 6 ft or closer to the main grounding rod.That is the minimum distance apart... There is not any maximum distance between the grounding electrodes. FWIW: For many resent NEC code cycles the NEC has allowed Auxiliary Grounding Electrodes. Quote: "250.54 Auxiliary Grounding Electrodes. One or more grounding electrodes shall be permitted to be connected to the equipment grounding conductors specified in 250.118 and shall not be required to comply with the electrode bonding requirements of 250.50 or 250.53(C) or the resistance requirements of 250.53(A)(2) Exception, but the earth shall not be used as an effective ground-fault current path as specified in 250.4(A)(5) and 250.4(B)(4). " End of quote. I would not recommend an Auxiliary Grounding Electrode though. It will do nothing to improve the sound of an audio system. The earth does not possess some magical, mystical, power that sucks nasties from audio equipment. If anything an Auxiliary Grounding Electrode can cause noise on the chassis of the equipment. Lightning loves them though... Here is a short video about the use of an aux ground rod. When watching the video substitute the whole house generator with audio equipment of an audio system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4wBI7bWgI / / / / / Finally this... Grounding Myths "Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering" by Henry Ott 3.1.7 Grounding Myths More myths exist relating to the field of grounding than any other area of electrical engineering. The more common of these are as follows: 1. The earth is a low-impedance path for ground current. False, the impedance of the earth is orders of magnitude greater than the impedance of a copper conductor. 2. The earth is an equipotential. False, this is clearly not true by the result of (1 above). 3. The impedance of a conductor is determined by its resistance. False, what happened to the concept of inductive reactance? 4. To operate with low noise, a circuit or system must be connected to an earth ground. False, because airplanes, satellites, cars and battery powered laptop computers all operate fine without a ground connection. As a matter of fact, an earth ground is more likely to be the cause of noise problems. More electronic system noise problems are resolved by removing (or isolating) a circuit from earth ground than by connecting it to earth ground. 5. To reduce noise, an electronic system should be connected to a separate “quiet ground” by using a separate, isolated ground rod. False, in addition to being untrue, this approach is dangerous and violates the requirements of the NEC (electrical code/rules). 6. An earth ground is unidirectional, with current only flowing into the ground. False, because current must flow in loops, any current that flows into the ground must also flow out of the ground somewhere else. 7. An isolated AC power receptacle is not grounded. False, the term “isolated” refers only to the method by which a receptacle is grounded, not if it is grounded. 8. A system designer can name ground conductors by the type of the current that they should carry (i.e., signal, power, lightning, digital, analog, quiet, noisy, etc.), and the electrons will comply and only flow in the appropriately designated conductors. Obviously false." Henry W. Ott Who is Henry Ott? http://www.hottconsultants.com/bio.html . |
Hmm you need an electrician first. Ok please don’t spend $1500 on a lower end power conditioning system for your headphone rig. You need like an Audioquest 3000 or higher anyway for that and it’s 3300 plus about a 1000 dollar power cable for it. After thatThe best power conditioning system for the money is that and after that look into a Shunyata Denali V2 for $5500 and you will need a power cable like a Shunyata delta XC minimum for $1000 ish for that or Shunyata Alpha XC preferred for $1900. The $5500 system has 6 outlets and their 8000 Everest is the same quality just 2 more outlets with a total of 8. Those cheaper conditioners (even the Hydra) won’t do anything with how resolving your system is. You are better off calling an election and buying a better DAC and getting some speakers. |
Great news! You don't need a power conditioner at all and you were wise to give your audio system dedicated 20 amp circuits. The bad news is that you have a grounding problem. That ground rod you said is just for your audio equipment absolutely must not be connected to anything but the houses main ground rod, and only if it is 6 ft or closer to the main grounding rod. If it is more than 6 get from your main ground rod then the most affordable option is to abandon the audio system ground rod. Everything in your house must tie to that one single point the main grounding rod through your electrical panel. From that main ground point you could put in a new ground rod every six feet until you reach your audio ground rod, but I would just abandon the audio ground rod rather than pound in more ground rods around the house just to reach it. Once that audio system ground rod is disconnected and you are connected to the house's grounding system in the power panel you will no longer have the noise problem and you will no longer have a blatant code violation that could be used by your insurance company if there was a fire started by any part of your audio systems electrical wiring or anything plugged into that system. An Audioquest Niagara 7000 would absolutely fix the noise for whatever you plug into it, but you would still have a code violation that could be used against you if there was a fire and you would still have a grounding problem that could cause noise elsewhere. It would be much cheaper to fix the root cause by hiring an electrician to disconnect your audio system ground rod and verify that you are still connected to the ground in the power panel that feeds those circuits. Best regards |
I have no idea about your home electrical system, but Michael Fremer has a video on his Analog Planet channel on YouTube about something similar he was having with his home and problems with "hearing" noise. Check it out, it’s quite informative about outside source causing interference, wiring issues, etc....it might help, cheers. |
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@output555 It doesn’t matter if the breaker is on or off. By the way the T slot on the 20 amp outlet is the neutral contact. IF the electrician only connected the ground rod to the outlet equipment ground terminal you will be measuring for a difference of potential, voltage, from the dedicated ground rod to the grounding system, (Grounding Electrode System), of the electrical service of the house. The electrical service main neutral conductor is connected to earth by what is called a Grounding Electrode Conductor that is connected to all earthed Grounding Electrodes. Audio dedicated ground rod >> to equipment ground contact/terminal on wall outlet >> volt meter >> neutral contact/branch circuit neutral conductor >> to neutral bar in main electrical panel >> Grounding Electrode Conductor >> to earthed Grounding Electrode(s) FWIW there are multitudes of multiple stray voltages potentials in the earth. The common electrical source is the Utility Power Company. I did not say to check for continuity from the equipment ground contact to the neutral contact because you don’t know for sure what the electrician did 25 years ago. IF the dedicated rod is only connected to the ground terminal on the outlet, therein not also connected to the branch circuit wiring equipment grounding conductor, a difference of potential, voltage, between the two contacts could possibly damage the meter if it was set to ohms to check for continuity. . |
@output555 **IF** the dedicated ground rod is all the electrician used for the ground for the duplex receptacle outlets then there is not a safety equipment ground connection back to the electrical service electrical panel equipment ground. What you have is no different than using ground cheaters at the wall outlets that your audio equipment that use the equipment ground for electrical safety. Actually if that is what the electrician did what you have is worse than just using ground a cheater to lift the safety equipment ground at the wall outlets. If you have a multi meter set the meter to auto AC volts. measure for voltage from the neutral contact to the equipment ground contact at one of the wall outlets. If the branch circuit wiring equipment grounding conductor is connected to the ground terminal on the outlet you should measure zero volts nominal. The reason the voltage should read zero volts nominal is because the equipment grounding conductor is connected to the grounded electrical service neutral conductor. That is the common ground point for the building structure. |
To lowrider57: That makes sense. Although @ $150/hr. I'd spend well over the cost of a PC for someone to test and replace the dedicated lines. For under $230, a Tripplite IT cleans almost 100% of the noise and RFI. A basic bandaid perhaps, but effective. The reason for my post is not to dig into my AC lines, but rather to find the best band-aid for under $1500. Some may think that's stoopid, but I'm content in my willful ignorance. :P |
@ lowrider57 The Entech Broadband Noise Analyzer is what @output555 used for his test. An earlier post of mine: jea483,683 posts @output555 response: output555 OP75 posts @lowrider57, If it were me I would hire an electrician and have him check out the "dedicated" ground rod the electrician installed 25 years ago for the audio system. If it is a dedicated ground rod that is connected directly to the duplex receptacle outlets, (equipment ground contact terminal), that could very well be a source of electrical noise. |
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rudyb
The Entech Broadband Noise Analyzer picks up the AM radio station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FU_MV3GWSQ . |
You hear a hip hop radio station playing? I bet that was pun intended ... I can’t imagine your amp has a hidden AM/FM receiver built in. :) Is it proven as a fact that the ’lousy’ mains cabling in you house is the source of the interference, or is that still an assumption? Mains cabling is lousy in any house ... long unshielded copper wires in a plastic tube. Do you still hear it with all cables unplugged but for the speakers? Do you hear it with your headphones? It could be a costly mistake if after installing a PC the problem isn’t gone. I'd try to get one with a money back guarantee. Unless of course you like to expand your setup with a PC anyhow. |
@output555 The Venom V16 is their entry level power conditioner. It will have 16 outlets. This is the direct link https://shunyata.com/products/power-distributors/venom-line-power-distributors/venom-v16-us/ For the Delta D6 It will only have 6 outlets but more tech https://shunyata.com/products/power-distributors/venom-line-power-distributors/venom-v16-us/ When looking at this one read the sections about - NICTechnology - GP-NR Noise Reduction - The ZR-71 outlets - built by Hubble to a Shunyata design These will be some of the main differences beyond price which is $1,998 vs. $3,250. I thought the V16 might be a mild stretch to your budget and offers 16 outlets compared to many of the other options.The D6 is sort of a baby Denali 6000 and more than your would want to spend. But use it for a comparison of the technologies. One more bit of advice. Buy it once rather than buy something, sell it, take a loss, and upgrade to something else. If you are able, stretch a little so the gear can last your a very long time rather than getting the urge to replace sooner or have buyers regret. But do keep the budget reasonable for you. |
I have been using and enjoying my Shunyata Triton/Typhon for years. As mentioned, Shunyata has a separate division making products for medicine, science and military. They are not alone in these markets but, I believe, they are at the cutting edge of power technology. I would not second guess a decision to get that used Shunyata Hydra. |
output555 OP Said: The EMI noise and RFI are being measured straight from the outlet. The system behaves nicely. @ output555 What type of meter did you use to measure it? . |
@output555 - From you list I think I would go with a new PS Audio Detect. It seems very similar to my PS Audio Quintet which has been in my system for at least 10 years. Bought it new directly from PS Audio. It has been faithfully doing its job all this time and I have have never had one issue with it. Personally, I have found PS Audio very easy to work with. Another benefit of PS Audio is if you ever decide to upgrade to one of their regenerators you will receive a very generous allowance for trade in. I was shopping a few months back and they would have allowed me the full purchase price on my new regenerator purchase. Now Shunyata makes very interesting products and the Hydra's would be worth exploring.If your budget was a bit higher I would say to look at the Venom V16 Power Conditioner or the Delta D6. The V6 is just a tad bit more than your budget so worth considering. I know some say Shunyata seems like they sell snake oil, but when you see their results in the field of medicine and the founders background in making nuclear submarines electrically quiet, I feel there technically is backed by results. Summary: Lower cost: PS Audio Detect A bit more: Venom V16 Power Conditioner |
To 4krowme: Thanks for the comments. Yeah, the Tripplite is based on sound principles, no pun intended. However, the execution is kinda low-rent and not aimed for the audiophile customer. I tried one in my system and it actually lowered noise to near zero as measured on an Entech Wideband Noise Analyzer. Exceptionally good for $225. Very, very little hum from the transformer, too. The main drawback was music tended to sound slightly flattened and not especially engaging. Don’t like having an connected stock cable either. I also agree about the Decware. Why Steve put the voltage meter on the back makes little sense. Other than that it looks nicely engineered and gets glowing reviews. I’d buy one today, except I’d have to wait until Winter 2022 to receive it. The woes of handmade products in a tight supply chain. Nope, nope, nope. The noise is not originating from anywhere in my system, unless it can jump from an unplugged component into the AC outlet, in which case I’m taking it to America’s Got Talent. The EMI noise and RFI are being measured straight from the outlet. The system behaves nicely. |