Why does my tube amp

Why does my 60wpc Jolida 3502s tube amp drive my speakers much better than 110 lb ss amps? My speakers are Psb platinum T8s 88db and 4 ohms. Its opposite of what i expected,tons of bass,not bright at all just right. I guess shouldnt have been looking out the window during electronics class. Thanks Ted
I feel very comfortable in my Subaru XV Crosstrek. More comfortable than in Mercedes Benz E350, but I doubt that I can outrun E350 with Subaru XV.
What is the 110 lb gorilla, I mean SS amp, being compared?

Also what kind of music are we talking about? Any electronic rock/pop music with a lot of bass? Or big band or large scale high quality classical recordings? how loud do you listen?

Those are the things that will often push the limits of what a good quality lower power tube amp can do with speakers that represent a tougher load.

I am not saying teh PSBs are a harder load necessarily. I have heard PSBs running off similar power tube amps from ARC and Rogue and the results were quite good.
"More comfortable than in Mercedes Benz E350, but I doubt that I can outrun E350 with Subaru XV."

If its snowing, you can. Quite easily.
Well, for one thing comparing watts to weight is not a valid way to compare amps. Probably comparing watts to watts would be a better way to go. What are these secret SS amps you are referring to and what is their power rating?

Two things to consider are 1, the input sensitivity of the tube amp might be higher (which does not correspond to output power directly), and 2, a lot of folks drive tube amps into clipping regularly because they know their soft clipping will not hurt their speakers the way solid-state clipping distortion will.

Did you just get the 3502s; I didn't know they were available yet? What type of output tubes are you using in them?
It is my first tube amp and i shouldnt name the makes if its my fault but one amp was silver and looked like a Maico 400, and i had to tote about 2 million 600 thousand pounds of block to buy it. I listen to mostly rock from the 70s to present.

The music just has more weight. Ive tried solid state pre amps also. Now i have a Bat VK-51SE and have not heard the Bat descibed as thin. Ive also tried 1000 wpc into 4 0hms class D amps so i guess i like tubes. I used EL 34s and KT-150s and they both sound good. Im sure you guys can tell by my typing that i used to skip school and listen to my cr2020 yamaha reciever and NS1000 speakers, and at 54 yrs old im still a Mason Tender ouch. Thanks Ted
Sorry Plato, ive had the 3502s for a couple months. Im using the bypass and the VK-51se as the pre.Sounds good all by itself also. I would like to try something like the Tekton Lore as that would be a much better choice for this amp.
You're doing it the right way, relying on and trusting your ears, just simply listen. The only person you have to satisfy is yourself. You enjoy listening to music in your home. Which ever components enrich and improve this experience is what you want to own. Your results wouldn't surprise many people.

Moving in the direction of an easy to drive efficient speaker with increased sensitivity such as the Tekton is a wise one. This will allow you to reap further sonic performance from your tube amplifier.
not all amps are created equal ... I had a pair of Gemme Audio Tantos hooked to a 30w tube amp (cannot recall the brand/model at the moment). Sounded excellent but wondered about the V-Flex BASS I had read so much about in reference to the Gemme speakers ... eventually I advertised them for sale. While waiting for a buyer I rec'd a Tact M2150 SS integrated with 150w/ch ... the night before I sold the speakers I hooked up the Tact to the Tantos ... HOLOY SH^% there was the bass!! Items on shelves began to rattle! NEVER had I heard bass so deep in my room. Point being that both types of amps (tube/solid state) have there strengths or weakness and not always in areas yo may think. EVERYTHING is system/room dependent
New toy syndrome.
Sadly, Jolida amps are too inexpensive to have much cred with true audiophilliacs, but somehow they seem to hew to the "tube watts" imaginary or actual "extra punch syndrome" or EPS, have low noise, and knock the crap out of pretentious and otherwise FAR more expensive kit with aplomb. My 502p is sporting KT150s, and kicks ass in a refined, musical, and inexpensive manner helping fund my obsession with other overpriced and pretentious items.
I found a Stereophile review of your speakers & the relevant measurements here:

if you look at the Fig 1 - impedance & phase plots - you can see that when the freq is below 100Hz (mid bass & deep bass regions), the impedance of your speaker actually goes up (usually the impedance goes down in most speakers).

The reason, I think, is quite simple - the Jolida is operating in a constant-output power mode while the SS amp is operating in a constant-output voltage mode.
In the bass region when the impedance goes up, the Jolida maintains constant output power. Since the impedance is larger in the bass region, the output current from the amp goes down while the output voltage goes up (while keeping output power constant. Remember than power = voltage * current). So, the Jolida is adjusting its voltage & current outputs instantaneously depending on the speaker impedance while keeping output power constant. Higher voltage drive to the speaker is what's needed by the speaker drivers to create pistonic motion which generates SPL (& sound) in the room.

The SS amp, OTOH, is operating in a constant-voltage mode so when the speaker impedance increases, the output current drive decreases (less current into a higher impedance - makes sense). With the output voltage remaining constant, the product of voltage * current reduces into this higher speaker impedance. The SS amp is constantly adjusting its output current & output power as the speaker impedance changes while keeping output voltage constant.
So, if you could compare the voltage drives from the tube & SS amps, I bet that you'd see that the SS amp has a lower voltage drive into the speaker. This would mean less voltage for the speaker driver & less pistonic action by the said speaker driver. Therefore less SPL in the bass region with the SS amp.

hope this clarifies.
I'd buy Jolida gear in a heartbeat if someone can convince me they are well built, reliable and will last a long time.

Also are there still two Jolidas around these days? There was a year or so back. Too confusing knowing which Jolida ifa ny Jolida to trust.

On the plus side, Jolida gear I have heard has always sounded nice.
Thankyou everyone, yes Bombaywalla with SS amps the speakers sounded almost out of phase. The mid and treble region would rise quickly with no response from the bass. I had a little luck with very short 3ft 10gauge speaker cables but then i thought it was speaker placement. I read an old thread here and they descibed the same problem with some EgglestonWorks speakers. Thanks for pointing that out Bombaywalla as i know nothing about how electronics work. I am a backyard motorcycle mechanic and tend to look at things in a larger means more power kind of way. Mapman im not sure but i think the other Jolida is Doge now? The build quality seems very good to me,really good when you consider the price.
Measurements are hopefully facts and facts are always your friend.

There can be a strong case made to never buy anything that has not been thoroughly measured by an independent source prior. Specs are helpful for narrowing down choices but seldom tell the whole story. Then there is always just trial and error. Yuck. Takes forever and can be quite expensive. Deaelers might like it though cause you buy more stuff until you find teh right combo that is just meant to work and sound great together. When they do, there is usually a reason and teh measurements may be the only way to truly know why.
Mapman...my Jolida is well built, reliable, and no clue how long it will last but it works like new after 3 years of abuse...uh use...Jolida MD is the only Jolida that matters (Mike Allan is there, and he started the thing).
Wolf, which Jolida model is that?

I'm not proud. I will take any plunge that I can afford if it seems to make sense. The more I can afford it, the better. :^)
The interface between the amp and speaker is what makes for a good combination. Its not always the case that transistors can drive any speaker made and do the job correctly.

It may simply be that your speaker is designed to work with tubes and to take advantage of their characteristics (for example even though it is a 4 ohm load there may be a substantial impedance peak in the bass that transistors can't drive).

There are some very good reasons that there are still tube amps being made all over the world half a century after they were declaired obsolete! IOW you don't have to know anything about electronics if you understand this simple fact. In the meantime enjoy the music...
502p amp...when I bought it I wanted something with at least 50 watts pc, and balanced (or at least XLR...this amp isn't truly balanced but I use XLRs because I like them) inputs as my preamp allowed for that. Very few tube power amps exist in this price range, so I bought it with "factory upgrades" and it still was around 1200 bucks or something (prices went up a bit in the last 3 years). It responds well to every tube roll I've tossed at it including the massive KT150s that are in it now, and its 65 watts per side seem to be more than enough for my purposes. A really snappy accurate sounding modern tube amp with that harmonically sweet tone I seem to need.
Thanks again as always Ralph, hopefully i will be asking you questions about your gear. Mapman it was Wolf's one of a kind posts that got me thinking about the Jolida. Thanks Wolf!
I think I should be taken seriously which is the main reason I shouldn't be.
I tried a search and i should know this but are less sensitive speakers or probably lower ohm speakers, do they shorten power tube life?
The harder you push your amp the shorter the life of the power tubes.

Lower impedance + lower efficiency = shorter tube life.

Another thing to consider that there really isn't a good justification for low impedance if sound quality is your goal. **All** amplifiers, tube, SS and class D, have lower distortion driving higher impedances. If a tube amp has an output transformer (and most do, ours don't) then you will have wider bandwidth driving higher impedances as well.

Tubes, unlike transistors, can deal with higher impedances without loss of power. And you will find that the setup is less sensitive to speaker cables, as well as the output section of the amp (tubes and output transformer) are more likely to run cooler. So if you want to get the most out of your tube investment dollar, use a speaker with higher impedance- 8 or 16 ohms.
Great point, Ralph. Also, using a Speltz Zero autoformer can make a low impedance speaker look like a higher impedance. I'm loving the Zeros on my Infinity RSIIbs. No downside that I can hear at all, in fact the entire frequency range from low bass to airy highs sounds better with them.
Thanks Ralph, i should have talked to you a lot of $$ ago.