What building my own speakers has taught me...

I used to sell Hewlett Packard computer systems to the Navy. When a customer asked me what database to purchase, I said I hate the Oracle sales people and their company's tactics. I thought Ingram was a better database at a more reasonable price. But I suggested that they buy Oracle because I thought it would be around in the long run and Ingram would not. Databases need upgrades, service, etc. And getting off your database is as complicated as changing your operating system.

I just spent a lot of money on a pair of speakers made by Sonus Faber. When you buy speakers from a dealer, he takes 40% of the profit. Why pay for all of this overhead? 

First of all, if you're going to buy a new pair of Sonus Faber (or any other brand name speaker) it's going to have to come from a dealer, who takes a certain amount of responsibility for the speaker. 

But why the high retail price? Because when you purchase a decent speaker from a decent manufacturer, you are not just paying for the cost of supplies. Remember high-priced people have to put those speakers together. My speakers have wood cabinets in lute shape, and not just any fool off the street can do that kind of woodwork. 

I purchased the Olympica Nova 5 speakers. Prior to the Olympica Novas, Sonus Faber sold Olympicas. The Nova stands for all the work they put into redesigning their new line. That means when you buy from a manufacturer, you're also paying for their research-and-design team. Etc., etc.

I would not buy any audio gear from a guy who made it in his garage, no matter how good it sounded. If something went wrong in a month that guy might tell  me to take a hike. Or, "Oh, yes, I'll fix it. Just leave it here in the corner of my garage." Months go by, and you get the picture. 

My suggestion: if you want a deal, buy used. Off Audiogon or other used suppliers. You probably won't get warranty support, but at least you'll have a company to talk to if something goes wrong. And a place to buy parts if you need to fix something.

@devinplombier 

Sorry if it sounded like I was dumping on @erik_squires. I thought I was agreeing with him, discussing all of the financial headaches that name-brand speakers have. Although, I have taken issue on another thread when someone called manufacturers like Sonus Faber greedy. But we won't get into economics.

@erik_squires said it took him nine years to build his speakers. The fact that he went from two-way to three-way is part of the same process that all speaker manufacturers go through. And I think he's right when he says that the parts might have cost him #1k but he'd have to sell them for 15 times that much. What's his labor worth? And his expertise that built a certain sound that pleased him and I'm sure others.

I have been an audiophile for at least a half century, and by the way, I have a pretty damned good ear. But we couldn't possibly resolve that issue with words. But to agree with you on some things you said, like about manufacturers going out of business. I purchased Apogee Slant 8 speakers just before they went out of business. I blew a ribbon and maybe could have gotten another one from a guy in Australia, but I didn't want to get into a garage-made part, especially from somebody halfway across the world. 

Prior to my Sonus Fabers, I owned a pair of Golden Ear 2 speakers. I wasn't at the same financial level then. Anyway, a woofer blew and I found that Goden Ear had moved on to the 2+. So, I had to pay more money for a "trade-in" Yes, buying from a manufacturer and dealer can be risky, too.

But, on the other hand, I have owned VPI turntables, ARC preamps, and a McCormack DNA-1 amp, and all of them have supported me for decades. McCormack sold out to Conrad Johnson, but Steve was still around to upgrade my amp.

A slight digression--a friend of mine passed away and I had helped him 20+ years ago to buy a fairly expensive stereo. I inherited his stereo. He had a Hovland Radia amp which was made 20+ years ago, just about the time Hovland went out of business. Man, that is one damned good amp and I wanted to keep it. People on Audiogon said Amps wear out. Lucky for me, I live in L.A. and Bob Hovland, the maker and designer, is still around. I got him to check out my amp and say it was like new. Apparently he used military parts. But that probably bolsters your argument. People who make audio equipment love it and would be happy to stand behind it. Even a garage manufacturer. And I've known a few.

I think it's wonderful that a person would build their own speakers. I've had a few friends who have done it. I had a friend who built a very seductive preamp. To his ears it was the best preamp on earth and he wanted me to buy it. It was a warm-sounding preamp that many people would love, but when I compared it to my Conrad Johnson Premier 14, I realized that as wonderful as this home-made preamp sounded in the mids, its treble was etched and buried behind the bass. 

So, everybody should build their own stuff. I think everybody should be passionate about something and become involved with it. But no, I just wouldn't buy anything made in someone's house or garage or whatever. 

I could tell by your tone that you feel much superior to me, especially when you mentioned my paying for the expensive finish on my speakers, and questioned if I could even hear the difference between speakers. "This guy's not a down-and-dirty audiophile, he's bourgie," I heard you thinking. Well, man, I have owned everything under the sun. From $300 speakers powered by a very cheap receiver, to the typical NAD system with inexpensive JBL monitors. And I've alwlays loved every system I've had because it brought music to my ears. I just happen to love my present, more expensive system more. 

Mostly, I'm 78 and don't have the energy I used to to run all over L.A., Ventura, and Orange counties comparing gear. The Sonus Faber was at a dealer near me who would offer services I needed, and I loved those speakers on first hearing. They fit my "house sound," so to speak. Musical, with a great soundstage, detail, etc., but not analytical. I did compare them to Vienna Acoustics and Magico speakers, which I found to be cold. When I helped my budy buy his expensive stereo 20 years ago, he bought the first Wilson Sashas, and I never liked those speakers. I thought they were dry and distant. At least give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm an audiophile who goes his own way and has an ear for what I like. Like @erik_squires who built the speaker of his dream.

@devinplombier 

I used to own a BMW and loved it. As I became a grandfather, I needed a larger car to pick up my granddaughters from school.

There is absolutely a difference between people like me who have only a passing interest in the electronics and mechanics of audio versus its sound. And even regarding its sound, it has taken me many decades to believe audio writers who talk about "air," "soundstage," etc. I have had to own equipment that can produce those sounds to buy into their existence. 

I have had friends who upgrade their systems with better capcitors, etc. Even friends who have made their own equipment. I am jealous. I wish I had that apptitude. I am a writer and I listen to music while I write. 

The Sonus Faber Olympica Novas are the first really good speakers I have ever owned. Prior to those, I had the GoldenEars as I mentioned. I thought they were wonderful until I had an inheritance which allowed me to purchase the Sonus Fabers, which are in a totally different class.

Anyway, I love music, and I like people who love music. Whether people's budgets are relatively low, as mine has mostly been, and they buy used or they make their own gear, I would much prefer to talk about the music itself. I go to hear live concerts a lot. My wife and I have tickets to the L.A. Phil and I go to hear jazz at the Soraya on the CSUN campus.

Probably one of the reasons that I would not buy from somebody who makes equipment is because I know so little about their workings. I've known a lot of electrical engineers who try to talk to me about how an amp or preamp works, and I get bored quickly. 

So, I'm glad we understand one another. Basically, I think it's the music we both really love in the end. In that regard, I think everybody on all of these forums are brothers in arms, although we might spat from time to time.

@devinplombier @toddalin 

I told you I inherited a Hovland Radia amp. At the time I had a McCormack DNA-1 upgraded to the top of Steve McCormack's many upgrades. It sounded damn good for a non-Boulder-priced amp. It was very musical and made me happy. I didn't see any reason to change to another amp.

When I first compared the Hovland to the DNA, I thought it was a no brainer. The McCormack was much more "musical." But being an audiophile, I continued to compare them for weeks. And suddenly--I can't remember what I was listening to--there was no contest. The Hovland was so much better. The McCormack threw an enticing wall of sound, but I could hear into the music with the Hovland. A soundstage I'd never heard before because I never had the money to buy a good amp. And for me, it wasn't something that I could hear right away, or even in an hour.

When my friend who made preamps left his at my house for several weeks, hoping I'd buy it, it sounded better than the CJ at first. It was a very seductive preamp. It reminded me in a way of an ARC LS22 preamp I bought many years ago. That took me a review from the late, great Wes Phillips at Stereophile to really hear. Again, seductive mids and mid-bass, but not great treble that I never noticed until Wes Phillips pointed it out. I have a feeling many people out there still have their LS22s and love them.

So, what has this got to do with buying something from a guy who makes one speaker in his garage. In other words, he has one speaker design which he reproduces. I might very well be taken with the guy and with his speaker and a month or even more later decide there was something about it I hadn't heard and I really didn't want to keep it. What to do? Sell a non-brand speaker on eBay? Really, you're kind of stuck. A good dealer will let you trade it in on something you do like, or I can sell my Sonus Fabers. People know about them and know that they're considered good speakers.

So, it's perhaps mostly my problem for taking a while to really hear a piece of equipment. But I bet others have the same problem. And I'd advise them to go to a dealer and buy a name brand.