While I have no great love for UPS, the seller is liable for shoddy packaging & owes you a full refund + shipping.
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received a small metal folding table today to put next to my grill. It was in a cardboard box & what looked like a used one at that. No other packing materials (plastic bag doesn't count). This is from the manufacturer. I'm lucky it was only bent in a few spots. It bent back easily. I'm just happy it wasn't creased. If it was a piece of audio gear just stuck in a box you can only imagine the amount of damage.
Improper packing creates more problems than the carrier does.
Watkins was recommended when I purchased a pair of speakers because the seller had some bad luck with UPS. Well the speakers arrived in excellent condition but the boxes were beat up due to shipping (obviously not handled well). Thank God they were packaged well(double boxed). I inspected the speakers before accepting them much to the dismay of the person driving the truck. I agree with tireguy all shippers are questionable.
I've been waiting to give my thoughts on shipping. First I would like to state to any seller out there placing ads and selling used items to buyers willing to pay. IT IS WITHOUT QUESTION THE SELLERS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE 100% SURE THAT the item sold is ABSOLUTLY PROPERLY PACKED and ARRIVES safe and undamaged to the buyer or a complete REFUND IS IN ORDER, no questions asked. I do not blame UPS on this one. I BLAME THE SELLER and would also like to state that I think that seller owes you 100% of your money back plus any extra cost ASAP and a BIG BIG apologie for NOT HAVING ENOUGH BRAINS or CONCERN to proberly ship a simple LP. IT IS NOT UPS's fault at all and by what is said, I DOUBT VERY MUCH that UPS will even pay the claim for SHOTTY PACKING of such an EASY ITEM TO PACK PROPERLY. Hate to get anything else from your seller. A'gon SHOULD START ANOTHER PAGE TO TEACH MORONS HOW TO PROPERLY SHIP/DOUBLE BOX different items. If a seller does not know how to double box/properly pack and make sure the iten CANNOT get damaged than HE/SHE HAS NO RIGHT TO BE SELLING THE ITEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. Your seller is 110% wrong on this one, NOT YOU or UPS. I think A'gon should allow a spot on the feedback page to rate the sellers packing. like from 5* being a pro to 1* being a complete moron. Sorry for such a strong reply but this is a VERY IMPORTANT issue that all should be aware of. Most people know how to properly ship and some are just the cheapest mindless disrespectful packers that have no right at all selling used items to unsuspecting paying buyers. If NOT SURE HOW TO PACK, JUST CALL UP THE SHIPPER AND ASK. Every buyer should give explicite instructions on how they want the item packed. ALL ADS SHOULD EXPLAIN HOW THE ITEM WILL BE BOXED. DO NOT USE OUTER BOXES THAT ARE FOUND IN DIRTY DISGUSTING DISEASE FILLED DUMPSTERS that are already crushed with bent and smushed cornors. The outer box should be at least 3or4 inches larger ALL THE WAY AROUND, TOP,BOTTOM,ALL SIDES and packed tightly with sprayed foam or styrofoam packing material AND NOT NEWS PAPERS. I can see why some people send CODS back. You sometimes don't get to hear the full story. Sorry for such a strong post but it very important and all should understand how to properly pack. UPS USES 8FT DROPS and all boxes should be able to take a hit from the largest GIRTH ALLOWED crashing down cornor first. Thats how you pack.
Your information on UPS 8ft drops and boxes crashing down corner first is very illuminating. It explains why the LP package ended up looking like a "V". The seller did use a hard carton box sold by Unlimited Bags for shipping. He is nice and going after UPS to refund me.
I was told that USPS does not have many heavy packages going through their system. Therefore the light packages are much less likely to get damaged. I have bought many LPs over the net. Some sellers packaged their LPs much flimpsier than this seller. They just used a free USPS envelop, not even a box, and amazingly the LPs survived. These sellers are *not* LP lovers for sure :-(.
MikeC is right on (for most of it - sometimes it IS the shipping company's fault - forklift blades poked into the side and stuff like that)
The manufacturer (if coming direct) is responsible for developing the packaging as well as the product. I work in an R&D lab, and there is an entire team of people that do nothing BUT create and test the packaging to endure the "rigors" of shipping companies. You should see the shock and vibe table and be around when they do the "drop tests". What a job - getting paid to try to break stuff!
If it is a personal shipment, I also agree that the shipper is responsible for packaging it correctly. A discussion before buying is in order to gain agreement on who is responsible and what the consequences will be would be a good idea.
I do agree with many of the above posts regarding proper
packaging. I'm the owner of a 12+ year old video editing
and media duplication company. Over the years I 've received
and shipped well over a thousand packages with UPS alone -
not to mention other shippers such as FedEx and Airborne.
While UPS does screw up with their package handling at
times - I find that the main reason I get any item in
damaged conditon is a result of flimsy packaging. If any-
thing, I try to over-pack everything I ship - so the
receiving end gets their items okay.
I recently received a heavy McIntosh Amp that was shipped
to my location in Portland,OR from southern California. The
amp was shipped in the correct McIntosh double shipping
carton (and I think Mac does about the best job in the
audio industry with packaging!); and arrived in superb
condition. Even the outer carton was in near-perfect condition. I feel this was largely due to the fact that the
package weighed well over 90 lbs. - and was thus not easy
to lift or throw around.
However, in the case of lighter items - I think that
you will have to pack things very well; given the fact
that your package may be tossed around in shipping. So if
you have items below say 50 lbs.; better pack it very well!
Anybody shipping LP (which some are so rare and hard to replace) should use their common sense when shipping. If shipping a single LP, use the USPS (US Post Office) Priority shipping. Its cheap, it only takes packages up to a certian weigth and size as not to cause any damage. Anyone using UPS for shipping a single LP has got to learn a little more about shipping. Does it make sense to ship such a small fragile item along with large heavy boxes falling from belt to belt. Come on, a little common sense will go a long way. No wonder why you guys/gals can't get your systems together. You don't even know how to ship a LP. You be very careful when buying used. Also think about buying from someone who is not the orig owner. This means that your item your paying for may have been shipped many times and just think about all those long drops from belt to belt numerous times. Ground going across country can get loaded and unloaded many times at different HUBS across the country. Just think about what a 80lb amp or a 5k CD player is going thru. Know exactly how your item is being packed.boxed and who and how shipped with. Do not take shipping so litely. Its the most important part of a trnsaction after payment.
You stated: "No wonder why you guys/gals can't get your systems together. You don't even know how to ship a LP."
How did the thread about a damaged LP turn into a flame about everybody's system? Sometimes the packing here on A-gon from individuals is better than from the manufacturers themselves. On ebay it's a crap shoot.
You've expressed ideas regarding shipping that have been
mentioned time & again & that's a good thing as the more exposure there is to proper shipping techniques the better the condition of the items upon arrival. However, I take exception to your methodology of getting the point across.
Overall go fed-ex/While both are to big to give alays reliable service I did get a refund for a pair of broken tubes in two weeks instead of the 6 I thought it would take.Plus they are very aggressive in their pricing vs UPS.Even at home (if you are going to be there ) and especially at work even if you don't have a regular account call for a pick up for ground or air.If you have been using pacing shops like Mail Box etc you may not realize how much you are getting screwed price wise.