Warren, I have a room that is a basicly dedicated that I listen to music in but, is much smaller in proportions. My speakers are Apogee Slant 6s and I have the same type of boundries as you do, my spaekers are approx.8-9 feet in spacing as opposed to a tighter 6ft as has been suggested to me but still are great sounding. For the boundry problem though I also use 4 48" Room Tunes and have a self created boundry wall to balance and assist tuning in my room and have excellent success with this. The best advice that I have received is to play a bit with placement to acheive the best results. As you probably know the problem created with a corner as well as the neeed to keep the speakers forward of the the front wall so that you can tweak the bass responce a bit, from there you can try adjusting the toe in, some require a bit more than others some none at all for that big sound stage. I have also been told of users measuring with string to do thier actual trangulation to get thier best results too. Closing in the width distance should focus the placement better but doesn't mean that it will be to your liking. Hope this helps a bit :>). Ray
I'm not really going to address your question. I think there are too many variables involved in the speaker/listener/room interaction equation to be reduced to simple statements about speaker distance. Two variables for you to be concerned about is the Caravelle's power response through the midrange and treble. Will the reflected sound closely mimic or diverge from the direct radiated sound? The farther away you are from the speaker the more important this becomes. The other is how the relatively different speaker locations will excite room modes.
1. The good thing is you have a lot of room to work with
2. The bad thing is, see #1.
Seriously, all you can do is start moving your subs and monitors around; you'll know when it's right. Have fun!!
Really does seem to be a lot of trial an error in speaker placement as each room is so different.
I tried the Cardas method and it was different, but the soundstage was not as wide (it called for moving the monitors 4.25' from the sidewalls and 7' from backwall).
I am using a variation of it and the rule of 3rds, or 5ths or something :)
A couple basic suggestions:
Move the monitors into the room from the backwall if you can, and in from the sidewalls. Experiment from there on placement and toe in.
I settled on 5' in, 3.25' from sides, 8' apart and my listening spot is 10' from monitors (so not a triangle). Sub is behind the left speaker away from the backwall and next to the sidewall.
No toe in. Room is 15.5' wide by 26' long and 8' high with stairwell wall on right side halfway into room.
System is in my signature.
Have fun. It took me a week of playing around.
Will probably change it next month:)
Oops. Should have said my 8'X 10' X 10' triangle was not a triangle with equal sides.
I did read somewhere where this was suggested as possibly desirable, but that was just a theory.
I've always had luck following the advice that said to make your listening distance the same as the speaker width. This is not an equilateral triangle, rather, a perpindicular line straight back from the center point of your speakers. Example: say your speakers are 8 feet apart, you should be 8 feet away from the center point of your two speakers, kind of like a big T-square. If your speakers are 10 feet apart, your listening poition should be 10 feet straight back from the center of your two speakers, etc. Try it out and see if it works. Regarding toe in, I'm sure it is speaker dependent, I have mine so I can see only about 1" of the inside of the speaker, kind of like they're ointing at my shoulders.
Am I the only one that uses an equalateral setup. Same distance from each speaker? It works best for me in small rooms anyway. 8' is ideal depending on the room size.
I agree that every room is different and you must experiment. Your lack of a second boundary wall means a non symetrical arrangement, which is more challenging. That being said, here are guidelines that have worked for me.
In a large room such as yours, start by placing the speakers on the narrow wall, using Cardas for a starting distance off the existing side wall (distance to side wall is 0.276 X room width). With only one actual wall, you may discover image centering issues and a sound stage that is wider on one side. On the positive side, you might discover some pleasing echoes up towards the ceiling corners.
Place the speakers a minimum of 2 ft. off the back wall with no toe in. Sit slightly further from each speaker than they are apart (if 8 ft. apart, sit 9 ft. from each measured along the triangle). That makes the included angle more like 55 deg. than 60 deg).
Experiment with moving the speakers closer together or farther apart and observe the image. The further apart without getting to close to the side wall, the better, as long as the image holds together. Many speakers will go up to 10 ft., no problem.
Then, try moving the speaker and listening position (together) further from the back wall, making measurements at the listening position. Avoid having the side and rear wall distances close to the same. Look for the best low end response.
Finally, experiment with toe in to minimize side wall reflections and control high end brightness. For well balanced high end speakers, the less toe in the better.
The variables in the setup process are many and the number of combinatins are infinite. But, don't be discouraged, if you are patient, it will come together. I am still making adjustments after 2 years, based on a better understanding of what is going on. Take good notes of the trends. They can be useful later on.
BTW, a DSP/RTA beats the heck out of a RS meter for speed of taking and analyzing room measurements. You can get a good one with calibrated mike under $500.
Have fun and let us know how it goes.
Experimentation seems to be the key. I'm playing and having fun. I used to keep my speakers 6 feet apart. There is a lot of interesting things going on with 9.5 feet between them (subs in the middle) with the high ceilings an opening. very interesting. So far so good, but everything, as we all know, in this audiophoolish hobby, is temporary. :)
Interesting. I had not tried sitting with my head in the equilateral triangle spot as you have. I guess my room did not really allow it with where I had my couch (and listening position while sitting normally). If I sit on the edge of the couch and lean forward I can get close to an e-triangle.
As the Cardas method also does suggest an e-triangle I gave that a try tonight. Something really kind of kicked in at a 100" e-triangle. So much that I am now considering moving my couch so I can sit normally at that distance.
Will keep tweaking.
make that 8.5 between speakers--even better..
I spent a fair amount of time tweaking positions; optimal for my room and system was 9' between the mains with the subs alongside (inside). Reading this thread seems to indicate that the 8'-9' mains separation is the most frequently used. But of course YMMV. Good listening to all and congrats to Warrenh on finding the G spot.
Actually, if the speaker has good dispersion 8' to 10' is ideal. However less is usually ok. It just gives a smaller soundstage.
At an etriangle I seem to be inside the sound stage. Farther than that I get better ambiance, but I don't feel like I'm a part of the sound stage anymore. That's the best way to explain it. I guess it's more intimate (nearfield).
Yes! That "something" that I mentioned that kicked in is almost like sticking your head under water in the "pool" of sound.
Bad analogy, but their is some kind of boundary that is present at the e-triangle point. You are more immersed in the soundfield it seems.
Fun to experiment with. I am seemingly liking the e-triangle more than my previous arrangment right now.