Depends what you mean by "default." If you shipped the equipment and no check, or didn't clear, and he/she kept the merchadise, then I'd go to court as well. If they just agreed to a deal and backed out with out any financial consequence on your end, other than having to find another deal, then I don't think it worth the time to fool with. Just part of doing business on the net. Personally, until money or merchandise is shipped, it's not a deal IMO. However, I do feel that each party should notify the other of their intentions if they are backing out of a "verbal" deal. That is part of being honest.
I know I'll find some who will disagree, but have you ever been to a store and said, hey I like that, I'll be back and then never came back? Kind of the same in my book.
But once money or equipment is sent...that's binding.
There are five parts to a legally binding contract: Offer, Acceptance, Consideration, Legality and Capacity. If no money (the consideration) has changed hands, there is no contract. This is as I recall from Business Law in college many years ago. Kelly: Is this correct? Thanks, Don
I have a question about this topic. I think this just happened to me. The guy told me that if I wanted the item it was mine, so I told him I did and I sent the money to him. Well its been a little over a week since I sent the money and he has not contacted me or repied to any of my messages. He did give me his phone number, which I haven't tried yet, but was planning to shortly. I really don't know what to do, what if the number he sent me isn't really his and he's just going to keep the money. Can someone please help me?
Lee, many sellors verify funds before they will ship, including money orders which sometimes have bogus origination. Recheck your sellors payment terms (10 day hold?). There are stop payment options to checks & m.o. if you think you're in a rip off situation. I'd try emailing again, but use your return/read receipt option on your emails to verify whether the sellor is reading them or they are lost in cyberspace (or he just is on vacation/etc).
Soundsgr8tome, I'd recommend that you look through many of the older threads under misc audio or site related for a myriad of ideas over time. It should prove useful. Good luck to you -
Well done Elgordo. Consideration, as it respects contract law is always fun to try and get a grip on. I have a law book, here is what it says with respect to contract consideration:
Under a bargain theory of consideration, what is required is that the promise and the consideration be "in the relation of reciprocal conventional inducement, each for the other." In other words, consideration must both be "sought by the promisor in exchange for his promise and be given by the promisee in exchange for his promise. If so, then you have a bargain which is supported by consideration, and may be enforced, so long as the rest of the elements of a contract are found and satisfied. Good stuff, huh? May not have put it all out there just right, and in any case don't have a clue what it means.
Are you kidding? I've had lot's of "done deals" which fell apart. Recently, I had a buyer for speaker cables who wanted them for a little less than I was willing to sell for. After a few emails and a long, long telephone call, he was comfortable and we struck a deal between my ask and his offer. I would ship upon receipt of certified funds. Next day along comes the email that the certified has been sent priority mail. That night I got a call from "Mr. committed" who told me that he had read a review on AUDIOASSYLUM and "DECIDED NOT TO BUY THE CABLES"!
Call me stupid, but, I don't get it. I then ask about the check that's been overnighted. I'm told that he stopped the package???
I think he's a bad guy. I write him and tell him that I'm really troubled with his actions and haven't decided what I'm going to do about feedback, since I feel that he's been dishonest with me. He tells me that he doesn't care if I give him bad feedback, since he has a second Audiogon account anyway!
I litigate for a living. I don't do it for my own account unless it's my business. My time's worth a lot more than "getting even" with this a...hole.
I bet the same is true for you.
Similar thing just happened to me. I paid via paypal, got an email in return saying he was going to ship it the next day, and it is now 2 weeks later (he said 2-day for shipping), and he hasn't responded to several emails. I'd take him to court if it was more than $30 (just a single MIT T2 interconnect for a center channel). My question is, is it legal and/or ethical for me to post this person's name and email address here? The item wasn't listed here, but was on both ebay and audioreview (didn't sell on ebay, so can't leave feedback there, i think). I feel the need to warn folks about a seller when this stuff comes up. If he'll do it for $30, he might do it for $3000.
Soundsgr8tome, if you've paid already and don't think you're getting the equipment, good luck with the lawsuit. Please let us know how it went.
I have had many deals fall apart when I am selling here on audiogon. There are a lot of flakes out there. I've heard every excuse except the "dog ate my email" and I'm not even a dealer. Cables seem to be flake magnets. But the most outrageous one where some one was agressively bargaining with me over a piece of equipment while he had listed the exact same piece of equipment on ebay, at a time identical to his first email to me, and with a reserve of my asking price! A few things I do. If there are multiple offers I let the second and third person know they are on the list if I don't receive funds. I mark the item sold and keep the ad up until the deal is completed. For all COD's I require good funds in advance for shipping and handling plus 10% non-refundable deposit. No funds in 48 hours, I'll sell it to the next person. I disclose this up front but dealing with these people is always annoying. Now I'm more likely to cut a curt Dealer some slack after about two years here.
I've had a lot of people change their minds for various reasons after "committing" to a deal, but since they let me know ASAP and seemed to be honest, decent people, I haven't left bad feedback or anything. No funds or equipment had yet changed hands. It's frustrating, because I had marked my ads "sold" and everything, but like someone else said, that's just doing business on the net. People do have second thoughts, the check they were waiting for doesn't come in, the amp they thought they had in hand doesn't come in, and that affects their plan to purchase the preamp I had for sale. Oh well, at least they let me know before any funds were lost. I've never had anyone cheat me on this site, or eBay, and I hope I never will. I think Audiogoners are the best buyers/sellers out there.
Bill, You need to let Audiogon know. It's your responsibility. They can't be everywhere, but they can be where you point them. Go for it and good luck!
Don't look to A'gone for help. This type of person is good at what he does. I had a buyer say ship;"Postal cod" / I did, he paid with "bad" check. I'm still holding a bum piece of paper/ he has my cables/ he still posts to threads here. However he explained it to A-gone / all they said to me was "work it out".
Hmmmm, I've also had deals fall apart. In fact one of the "high n mighty" posters IN THIS THREAD wrote an e-mail saying "I definately want these cables, tell me how much shipping will be to ... and I will have a check ready." I sent the shipping amount and got back something like "It turns out that I can't afford the cables at this time."
It's all about ethics. I have even followed through with deals several times even though I changed plans and no longer needed the item. I just resold the items here, sometimes for a profit, sometimes at a loss.
If you look at the seller's and poster's "handles", you will see that this is a relatively small community and lots of items make the rounds. Think twice before you cheat or break your word with someone. What comes around...
Metaphysics, I know EXACTLY what you mean, lately I have had several "confirmed" buyers, who said money order was going to be sent, addresses exchanged, one guy had me waiting at my house for 3 hrs so he could pick up in person the cables I "sold" him, and each changed his mind! Because each had the courtesy to call me and let me know what had happened, I have forgiven and forgotten, without negative feedback or angry retorts. As for myself, I have followed through each time I confirmed a deal w/a seller, whether or not I subsequently wished I could have changed my mind! I will not do that to someone, but others feel it's fair. I'm not sure I would say that it's unethical to back out when you've verbally or in email agreed to purchase, but it is unfair and inconsiderate. Someone with buyer's remorse can always resell on this or other sites. Someone else said, and I agree, that cable sales seem to be "flake magnets." I've had two confirmed buyers call later to say, oops, they are not long enough, or they are too long! Can't you measure before you tell me you want them? Sheeeshhh.
Somewhat Perturbed Sarah
I would post negatively if I still had the email address. I had really mixed feelings about this man for a long time. You're right to notify Audiogon. He didn't hurt anyone. But, he's aggravated me. THAT'S CERTAINLY NO CRIME! In fact, there are many who might send him some money if they knew that. Probably my family included.
If I can resurrect the email, I'll post.