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Audio Research Reference Linestages

Just want to hear if anyone else have a similar experience that I do.
Some 8 years ago I bought my first ARC Ref linestage.
It was Ref2 mk2, which I first enjoyed very much, but soon I found the bass to be to close in the soundstage and the treble too far away which never allowed the soundstage to get really homogenous and create the real music event.
When comparing with a Conrad Johnson LS17 it was very easy to hear that Ref2 mk2 had some issues with it's soundstage.
But I'm a fan of ARC's high energy "big" sound so I bought a used Ref One (later model with Infinicaps and detachable powercord), and it easily beat Ref2 mk2 in every way.
There I had the perfect soundstage with great dynamics.
It simply sounded more complete and homogenous than Ref2 mk2. Still not the last air in the highest treble that C-J LS17 have, but the rest was much better with Ref One.
Recently I tried to replace my Ref One with Ref 3, but after 3 months I gave up.
I found Ref3 to lack dynamics and the perfect soundstage of my Ref One. It simply sounded less involving and a bit lame compared to my Ref One.

Anyone else that have kept their Ref One simply because the find it to sound better than later ARC Ref linestages ?
flex2
flex2 OP
30 posts
 
Thanks for your inputs Arcl60 and Dbarger.

Laurent:
Yes I have listened to Ref 2 mk1 but only shortly so I might not be the best man to ask, but I remember that I found it to be a bit coloured. I wouldn't search for one if you have LS5 mk2 and even like Ref 3 better.

Regarding the Telefunken E88CC:
I can't use all Telefunkens in my Ref One. I simply get too fast and too dynamic, so I have found a combination of 50% Telefunken (first four tubes) and Ei E88CC for the last four tubes. That mix have given me the best sound so far. Very musical and with very natural pace and timbre.
For power amps I use ARC VT-150SE for mid and treble.
ARC 300.2 for bass.

Dbarger:
Great input. Thanks.
arcl60
24 posts
 
Hello Flex2,
I know very well the VT150SE as long as i'm still owning a pair. They are really great amplifiers. I ve recently did the upgrade to Ref300MKI and it's really a huge upgrade. When you compare the VT150SE and the Ref300MKI, the VT150SE is sounding more Medium, the Ref300MKI are just more extended on the bass and high frequency.
Definitively the Ref3 sounds better with the Ref300MKI than the LS5MKII which is a good match with the VT150SE.
Regarding the E88CC, i guess you maybe did that, the input tubes of the VT150SE can be replaced by Telefunken E88CC. That really a huge huge upgrade. I did the same on the Ref300MKI but only to 2 of the 4 inputs tubes. That's really make a big difference with recent tubes or even NOS Philips ECG tubes.
Thank you for the information for the Ref2MKI
Best Regards
Laurent
flex2 OP
30 posts
 
Arcl60:

Have you installed all three upgrades in your VT-150SE ?
I have never heard anyone mention these upgrades, but they are official upgrades from ARC.
One of them is to change from MIT Coaxial caps to Infinicaps, that made a quite dramatic improvment on the over all realism.
The other two are a change to the bias circuitry to make the start-up bias more stable until the tubes are warmed up, and the last are change of cables in the powersupply that increase impact and give the amplifier 10 extra watts.
I would say that the Infinicaps and the bias circuitry are very essential to all VT-150's.
Ask ARC for the instructions if you want to make these ugrades.

I'm not surprised that REF300 have better and deeper bass since everything (amount of tubes, powersupply and transformers) are beefed up.
Better treble than VT-150SE ???
Well, I have to hear that cause my VT-150SE are absolutely superb in the upper registers. Specially with Infinicaps.
Hope I get the chance to do so in the future.
arcl60
24 posts
 
Hello Flex,
I was aware of those 3 upgrades.
That maybe why my pair of VT150SE is less extended than the pair of Ref300MKI, i didn't do the infinicap upgrade. So maybe if i keep the pair of VT150SE, i will perform the upgrade. Well i guess it will be difficult to perform better on the bass register than the Ref300MKI, they are just more powerful, they use the double of tubes for the power.
By the way if you are traveling to France, and if you close from home, you are welcome to listen the Ref300
Laurent
flex2 OP
30 posts
 
Hello Laurent
I just looked and actually VT-150SE is a stronger amplifier than Ref300.
In fact it is stronger than all Reference amps except Ref600 which is as strong as VT-150SE.

Energy storage: Ref300 448 joules and VT-150SE 420 joules.
Feedback: Ref300 10dB and VT-150SE 15dB.
Damping factor: Ref300 have 11 (0,8dB at 16 ohm) and VT-150SE have 16 (0,5dB at 16 ohm).

So beacause of the higher feedback VT-150SE have a stiffer output, but I assume the "sence" of Ref300 being more powerful are because of the bigger transformers that transport the power more easily.
You better get some more iron in a 60Kg amp compared to a lightweighter like VT-150SE (35 Kg)
Ref300 also use less voltage swing over the output tubes compared to the same output from VT-150SE = more linear amplification and less distortion.

Thanks for the invitation.
I live in Europe too so please send an e-mail to [email protected]
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