Audio Research Reference Linestages


Just want to hear if anyone else have a similar experience that I do.
Some 8 years ago I bought my first ARC Ref linestage.
It was Ref2 mk2, which I first enjoyed very much, but soon I found the bass to be to close in the soundstage and the treble too far away which never allowed the soundstage to get really homogenous and create the real music event.
When comparing with a Conrad Johnson LS17 it was very easy to hear that Ref2 mk2 had some issues with it's soundstage.
But I'm a fan of ARC's high energy "big" sound so I bought a used Ref One (later model with Infinicaps and detachable powercord), and it easily beat Ref2 mk2 in every way.
There I had the perfect soundstage with great dynamics.
It simply sounded more complete and homogenous than Ref2 mk2. Still not the last air in the highest treble that C-J LS17 have, but the rest was much better with Ref One.
Recently I tried to replace my Ref One with Ref 3, but after 3 months I gave up.
I found Ref3 to lack dynamics and the perfect soundstage of my Ref One. It simply sounded less involving and a bit lame compared to my Ref One.

Anyone else that have kept their Ref One simply because the find it to sound better than later ARC Ref linestages ?
flex2
I have owned a Ref 2, mk2, a Ref 3, and several lower level ARC preamps. The Ref 5 is a HUGE step up. If Naim made a tube preamp, it would sound like a Ref 5. It offers incredible detail, but also excells at revealing nuances of rhythm, dynamics, and musical intent and subtlety. I upgrade from a Ref3 to the Shindo line, starting with an Auriges and then a Masseto. But with the Ref5, I am back! Really a GREAT preamp. It is anything but a subtle refinement of the Ref3. To your point on the Ref 1, if you like it best, that is a great circumstance to find yourself in. That is how I feel about the Ref5. I can stop looking... again.
Thanks for your inputs Arcl60 and Dbarger.

Laurent:
Yes I have listened to Ref 2 mk1 but only shortly so I might not be the best man to ask, but I remember that I found it to be a bit coloured. I wouldn't search for one if you have LS5 mk2 and even like Ref 3 better.

Regarding the Telefunken E88CC:
I can't use all Telefunkens in my Ref One. I simply get too fast and too dynamic, so I have found a combination of 50% Telefunken (first four tubes) and Ei E88CC for the last four tubes. That mix have given me the best sound so far. Very musical and with very natural pace and timbre.
For power amps I use ARC VT-150SE for mid and treble.
ARC 300.2 for bass.

Dbarger:
Great input. Thanks.
Hello Flex2,
I know very well the VT150SE as long as i'm still owning a pair. They are really great amplifiers. I ve recently did the upgrade to Ref300MKI and it's really a huge upgrade. When you compare the VT150SE and the Ref300MKI, the VT150SE is sounding more Medium, the Ref300MKI are just more extended on the bass and high frequency.
Definitively the Ref3 sounds better with the Ref300MKI than the LS5MKII which is a good match with the VT150SE.
Regarding the E88CC, i guess you maybe did that, the input tubes of the VT150SE can be replaced by Telefunken E88CC. That really a huge huge upgrade. I did the same on the Ref300MKI but only to 2 of the 4 inputs tubes. That's really make a big difference with recent tubes or even NOS Philips ECG tubes.
Thank you for the information for the Ref2MKI
Best Regards
Laurent
Arcl60:

Have you installed all three upgrades in your VT-150SE ?
I have never heard anyone mention these upgrades, but they are official upgrades from ARC.
One of them is to change from MIT Coaxial caps to Infinicaps, that made a quite dramatic improvment on the over all realism.
The other two are a change to the bias circuitry to make the start-up bias more stable until the tubes are warmed up, and the last are change of cables in the powersupply that increase impact and give the amplifier 10 extra watts.
I would say that the Infinicaps and the bias circuitry are very essential to all VT-150's.
Ask ARC for the instructions if you want to make these ugrades.

I'm not surprised that REF300 have better and deeper bass since everything (amount of tubes, powersupply and transformers) are beefed up.
Better treble than VT-150SE ???
Well, I have to hear that cause my VT-150SE are absolutely superb in the upper registers. Specially with Infinicaps.
Hope I get the chance to do so in the future.
Hello Flex,
I was aware of those 3 upgrades.
That maybe why my pair of VT150SE is less extended than the pair of Ref300MKI, i didn't do the infinicap upgrade. So maybe if i keep the pair of VT150SE, i will perform the upgrade. Well i guess it will be difficult to perform better on the bass register than the Ref300MKI, they are just more powerful, they use the double of tubes for the power.
By the way if you are traveling to France, and if you close from home, you are welcome to listen the Ref300
Laurent