Tube pre-amps $3500 under to add "warmth"

Audible Illusions.I love my PrimaLuna integrated,but my friend had the pre and reported that it was a little "fkat" in its' depth/spatial presentation.

MrT--Well, I must admit that a CJ PV5 is a different animal than the Jadis, it certainly has more of that old-fashioned tube sound that it appears you're looking for. Jadis, in its earlier versions before they started using Philips caps, has more of what you're looking for than most preamps, but it still might not fill the bill. My old JP80MC would have given you what you wanted, I think, because I had it modified by Andy Bouwman at Vintage Tube Services with what he then called his "Romantic Era" treatment (as I did with my JA80s as well). I don't think that Andy does this anymore on a large scale, but you might want to call him just to see, as he is a fan of the old-fashioned tube sound and I believe was designing a preamp that would bring back a lot of that tube magic. Worth a try if you're seriously looking for that sound--in fact, he might be able to re-fit an old CJ for you with vintage parts so you wouldn't have to worry about replacing the old parts with newer, more "modern-sounding" (for lack of a better phrase) components.

... if i hear a bunch of stereo systems each having different preamps, i report what i hear.

Yes, but you are hearing and reporting on differences between systems.....NOT preamps.

MrT - Are you coming to conclusions on the differences of preamps based on each of them being heard in different systems? If so, how can you say one preamp is "warmer" than the other. For example, I can take the warmest preamp from the 80s, use it to drive a Mark Levinson (Madrigal) amp from the 90s and then into a pair of Thiel 2 or 3 series speakers. In such a system, there is no way anyone would ever know that there was a tube preamp in the system at all.....you'd swear you also had a Krell or Madrigal preamp from the same era.

you are right in one sense. in most cases, i am not comparing preamp a to preamp b in the same system.

my comments about a bunch of preamps auditioned in diefferent systems is that i find certain preamps lacking warmth--,i, a roll off in the range 1000 to 3000 hz, a slight peak in the range 90-200 hz and a laid back or recessed treble reponse, without regard to relative differences. if a preamp exhibits these characteristics in different systems, the chances are i won't report the sound of a stereo system as edgy or over detailed, especially if there is a tube amp, preamp and tube cd player in the system. i am using intuition nad the facts speak for themselves. i have auditioned some preamps in my own system and have compared several preamps in another system.

however, i would conjecture that i would not find any preamp designed today that is warm, based upon my definition.

A lot of interesting ideas and opinions being floated. Jafox makes a valid point about hearing various preamplifiers in various systems making if difficult to judge the preamp on its own, especially in reference to how it might sound in Mrtennis' system. Trying a component in one's own system/room is the only way to accurately gauge how it will sound in one's system. Cabling can/will make a significant difference in sound as well.

In my opinion, when looking for a current production preamp, and wanting a "classic" tube sound, one might be better served not considering what most people consider the "better/state of the art" models. Most producers seem to be designing towards a more neutral presentation, especially toward the top of their line/s.

I previously owned a VTL TL-2.5, which has a bit of the "classic" sound, while moving up the line to the 5.5 is less so. Both sound fantastic, but are slightly different flavors. The 2.5, tubed with Mullard or Amperex Bugle Boy tubes(Mullards my personal fave), leans heavily toward a "classic" sound...without being too much of a good thing.