Looking for warmth

ironically, it could be the act of bi-amping. try the vandy with one adcom.

Remember this a rookie observation,but the amps are giving you the glare/edge you seem to be trying to soften.A Belles or Mc Cormack for 7-800$ along with your Adcom resale $$,might do the trick,good luck,Bob

http://www.bizrate.com/buy/products__att359272--700-,cat_id--13110108.html

Sell the two Adcoms, that should give you around $5-600. Then buy one Classe CA-200 for around $1000. That should warm things up and you'd still have plenty of power.

John

I had 2cis for years, with Moscode or McCormack amplification. Warmth is what they had in spades, to my ears. I agree w ith Usblues and Jmcgrogan2; Adcom is a good amp when you needs lots of juice, but it is not known for warmth. Classe, Belles, or McCormack is a good way to go. The DNA 0.5 sounds better than the DNA-1. I would get one of the 0.5s and you would probably be 1/2 to a second for vertical b-amping.

Wow,that's about the harshest setup you could possibly have...that adcom amp is a real ear splitter...good recommendation is to do what Swampwalker suggests..good luck.

Larry

WoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooW! My ears are bleeding just reading about that setup!

A tube pre might work as well. There are a few that can usaully be had for around $600-$700. Or some warmer IC's between the source and the pre would help. If I recall Cardas can be warm and sweet. That would be the cheapest bandaid.

Or you could just start over :)

My suggestion would be to sell both amps and the preamp and buy an Onix SP-3 tubed integrated. This piece is warm, sultry and extremely articulate. It opens the door to the big time. You can find one on here for about $500 new or used even though it is built like the $5000 tube gear from the big American names.
The only caveat concerns your listening habits. While the bass from this amp rivals anything solid state, this amp is for music and will not serve well for ear splitting headbanger stuff. Look into it at www.AV123.com

Warmth is assoiated with the upper bass to lower midrange frequencies, say from 160Hz to 400Hz. You may be experiencing cancellation in this area due to "floor bounce". Using a mirror placed flat upon the floor you need to determine the reflection point. Place a pile of soft pillows or blankets at this point and then sit back and listen. A spoken male voice, cello or solo piano are recordings that will readily show the effect.

If this is not the case, then try moving your speakers and/or listening position closer to the wall behind them. Do it in small increments and be sure to adjust the speaker's toe-in.

If neither of these two suggestion work, then you might try playing with your interconnects starting from the source component. Cardas and Discovery come to mind, but there are other very good and inexpensive cables available. I just don't see the need for the radical restructuring of your system as suggested by others. They are not as good as the McCormacks and Classe products, but the Adcoms are good performers. However, if you really want to get radical, try a parametric equalizer like the Presonus EQ3B.

I totally agree with the McCormack amp suggestions. The place to introduce tubes, in my opinion and if you are so inclined, would be at the preamp level.

I have been very satisfied with VAC preamps in that regard. You can pick up a used Standard LE on Agon for about $2K or so and it is an excellent intro to tubes (plus it is built to last forever). I have also discovered a great synergy between VAC and McCormack gear.

Start with the preamp. I would try one of the offerings from conrad-johnson maybe. Both their tube and solid state units go in the direction you want. If that change is not enough, I would do the same then with the power amp. Again, I would suggest conrad-johnson. I would leave the cables and interconnects to the end. I think they have the least effect and should simply be final tweaking, like tone controls.

Get the MF toob buffer, or there is a China made knock off.

It may do the trick, but oooo those Adcoms.
There is a sweeeeeet VAC on here someplace, I just saw it for dirt. I thing 450!!!! That could work as well.

loon

Stop everything. While I like my suggestion, I have to say that Onhwy61 has made the best suggestion of all. He is also the most experienced audiophile to have responded and I would try his methods first because they cost nothing and could well be the answer. It seems unlikely that a guy who is seeking suggestions for a $500 amp upgrade will be substituting a $2000 preamp instead. The people who have been after this grail the longest are usually the ones who provide the least radical remedies...... and vice versa.
It is true that Adcom is not so bad. It may be a bit sterile but it sure won't make your ears bleed.
The reason I recommend the Onix has to do with value. It will move you quite close to state of the art for a pittance.

The preamp and amp have to go. I strongly suggest a McCormack amp. Try to get one off the gon that already has some level of revision done to it by SMC. Preamp is hard for me to suggest but I have liked Audio Research for years. Please let us know what you did and I hope one of them is a McCormack amp.

FWIW, although I agree with Onhwy61 in general, your post doesn't really help me in understanding your needs. You ask for more warmth but I have found that when a lot of folks do that they are in fact confusing warmth (as described by Onhwy61) and the need for a reduction in upper mid range glare most often caused by electronics, especially a lot of CDP's, speakers, and room placement and acoustic's.

In looking at your list of components I would rule out the Vandies as being a contributor to your problem - they are not inherently bright or cool speakers. Your amps are not known for being warm - to the contrary, but whether you need new ones or not is yet to be determined. (On that subject, if the amps are a problem, I would highly recommend that you not spend the money for two amps for these speakers, just get a better amp and run them full range).

I can't help you with the NAD stuff - I'm not familar with it. But I'm always suspicious of CD sources aas being a particular source of the problems your post suggests.

If you are trying to eliminate brightness this can also be changed by room placement, toe in, and 1st reflection points. Best to rule out set up as a source of your problem before replacing anything.

- pair of pse studio v monoblocks or muse mono blocks or quick silver monos (lose the adcoms)
-audible illusions L1 preamp
-muse model 2 dac or marantz cd player

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions, from the most radical, "start all over" to the best one liner..(the link to stoves)LOL....
I have already taken a persian rug off the wall and placed it on the floor using onhwy61's advice and today I will try using only the 545.
I will start looking for a decent tube preamp, though I am currently stationed overseas...it will cost quite a bit to ship over, hence the lower price range that i can afford right now.
I am a bit hesitant to sell the Adcoms...I like them ! but, If I find a good McCormack at a good price, i'll just give them to my son...
The quest goes on....

get a better pre and cd player

I will disagree with most, and agree with Wadia150. First of all, it is hard to find an amp that is smoother in the mids and sweeter on the top than the "sleeper" (of a Pass amp), the Adcom 545. Ahhh.. read the ba-zillion consumer reviews in audioreview.com if you don't beleive me. The problem exists in your NAD pre-amp, the 555 and ~perhaps~ your cables. The 545 Adcom is not the Holy Grail for transparency, nor is it layered in it's depth,... BUT "open", "strong" and "sweetly detailed" it IS. I have reservations (imho) about the Adcom 555. It is nasty, dry and can bite little chunks out of you. I don't like it. It is mearly a 545 on cheap back alley steroids. It has enough of them in it to make itself sick and ill tempered. It has collapsed it's own soundstage, dropped it's depth into an burning abyss and pushed it's evil manables into a room full of hot coals. Whoever is left to suffer along with it will scratch at their ears like mite infested felines. Get rid of it. As someone else suggested, perhaps try the 545 by it's lonely ole' self for a short while. Think of crossing at a lower freq. and perhaps with another cheap, but "grip"-heavy amp... Parasound, lower-end Bryston.

My vote is for a ride out the window for the NAD followed by the 555 tied to a cinder block.

Tubby

I second the suggestion of a McCormack amplifier made by Usblues, Swampwalker, Fplanner2000 and Saygrr: I think McCormack is -among many good Solid State Amplifiers- one of the warmest ones, "tube-like" sound. I have the McCormack RLD-1 Pre Amplifier and the DNA-225 Power Amplifier, both of them upgraded to the Top "Platinum Level" by the Manufacturer Steve McCormack and I couldn't be happier, I think I am done with this combo, most probably for the rest of my life so I can focus my attention and financial resources on upgrading other areas of my Two-Channel System. Try McCormack gear, you won't regret it. Good luck, Best, Antonio Machado.

You may want to consider Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers.

Just remember the adcoms can be harsh and thus u may want get warmer sounding amps but if you go for warmish tube amp as suggested by many it may prove to be too warm and you may end up missing something else...I would not start out by trying the far end of warm but something more in between. I am not saying warm sounding amps are "bad" per se...far from it..but it may be too much of shock for you given what your system is currently delivering.