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Lyra Kleos: tracking force/VTA/azimuth questions

I just bought a Lyra Kleos and I'm mounting it on a VPI JMW 12.7 (HRX turntable). I've done a bit of research, including Jonathan Carr's many posts here), so I know VTF is critical. I've done a trial set up to Lyra specs, and it doesn't sound right - piano in particular is distorted as if the cartridge is approaching break-up. I suspect the way I've set VTF. VPI recommends measuring VTF at the level of the record, which is impossible with the electronic scale I currently use - I simply put it on the platter and took readings, after first calibrating the scale, of course, and left it at 1.75 g. VPI says that simply measuring tracking force that way will under-represent actual VTF at the level of the record by a substantial amount because of the height of the gauge over the platter. Could that be the source of the problem I'm hearing? With other carts, I've done a couple of tests that seem to verify VPI's advice, so I plan to carefully measure the plinth to platter-top height, remove the platter, and build a temporary platform lower by exactly the thickness of the scale's pan. I'll put the scale on that, and then set VTF to Lyra's specs. This will result in VTF at the level of the record measuring correctly, when I put the scale on the mock-up platter, but NOT when I just slap the scale on the platter - it will measure higher. So my question is: does anyone see any potential problems flowing from my use of this process? I plan first to set VTA slightly tail high to approximate the magic 92 degrees SRA that seems to be the consensus of opinion these days.

Also, I'd like a bit of advice on using a fozgometer to measure azimuth. In my trial set up, I've never been able to get exactly the same readings left vs. right channel with the Foz; the best is a two-division difference, right higher in level than the left. I also get a one division reading, rather than zero, on the channel balance test, with both channel lights very faintly lit. Could this be a function of insufficient tracking force, or is there something else at play?

Thanks to any and all who might feel the spirit to respond (hopefully including you, Mr. Carr).
zachteich
glai's avatar
glai
446 posts
 
Bankupu,

When taking the channel separation measurement, use 1 Khz notch filter to discount the noise generated at other frequencies ( vibration from table, motor and footfall.) These will falsely decrease the maximum channel separation achieved. However, these value are instructive on the demands on low background noise and resonance control.

It should be >25db, once the separation is lost at the source. You are not getting any back even with monoblock preamps and amps.

The anitskate setting also changes the ch sep on my unipivot arms.

Glad you manage to improve the setting. The better alignment should also yield better sound thru less distortion.

Be patient and good luck.

Syntax-

I love the rim drive video. Be sure to share more.

The titan i is more demanding but more rewarding as well.

Not everyone is hardcore.
radioheadokplayer
181 posts
 
Sorry Kleos is a great cartridge even with my pricey dartzeel phono et al
I like as much as my vaunted Ortofon MCA-90.

My idea of a great cartridge is one that makes music experience great even for less well recorded records. if a Titan I is so fussy than far from a ringing endorsement. Kleos sounds great with everything so perhaps it's
More Musical albeit less revealing.
hamburger
132 posts
 
From Raidoheadokplayer's correspondence with Lyra USA:

"If it sounds as though the balance control has been tweaked ever so slightly towards the right speaker, then maybe a touch of anti-skate is required."

Is the above statement correct?
I thought if there is more sound on the right speaker, that means anti-skate has been set too high, because now the stylus is hugging the right outer wall more than the left inner wall.

I am no expert in this...
moonglum
619 posts
 
Please keep an open mind on VTA Zach...
The "magic 92 degrees" may not be obtainable from a positive VTA? Many samples of cartridge (not just Lyras) require a distinct "tail down" attitude. If I'm quoting JC correctly from the most recent 92d inspired discussions, Ogura only manufacture to a tolerance of +/-2 degrees. This suggests wide possible variation in the final VTA but in practice the cart's optimum may not be very far away from horizontal? (My Delos is within -0.5mm of neutral VTA depending on ambient temperature i.e. "tail down")

You will undoubtedly hear many recommendations that listening is the only sure way to hit the target, and this is the best advice.
Once you divine those settings I'm certain it will prove to be the cartridge you hoped it would be.
Best regards and good luck...
dinster
76 posts
 
Zachteich, I have been obsessing over the same issues, and have resorted to taking photomicrographs of the needle on the record and analysing angles, and have managed to get advice from several analogue guru's, for which I am extremely grateful. By the way I have a Delos and an Atlas, unfortunately not the Kleos
My summary is 1. It's all too hard!
2. These cartridges need precise tracking force, just adjusting VTA or adding a platter mat changes the sound a lot by altering tracking force, need to reset after each adjustment.
3. Both are a little better with the arm tail down, less surface noise, less edge, better balance to the sound. (and what a sound!) From my photographs to achieve a SRA of 92 degrees, I would need the arm lowered from parallel by about 15mm!!, so I think my photos are wrong, or I have one at the limit of the manufacturing tolerance. Listening gives me the setting of about 2-3 mm tail down.(11" arm)
4. Anti skate... I listened to people saying it's not important until the second last Cannon on the 1812 sent my cartridge skating across the record, now I believe it needs to be set correctly!!

In the end it's all fun, and I suspect everyone will advise you to listen and make adjustments until it sounds right to you. I think that's where I'm up to now... but what a journey, who knows what I might believe next week!
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