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$75 Thorens vs. $2K+ Michell...is this possible?

Hi all,

I've had my first turntable ever (a Michell Tecnodec purchased used with a Benz Glider medium ouput purchased new) for a couple of months now, and although it has sounded good at times and sometimes even great, overall it hasn't been what I've expected based upon the reputation that vinyl has over digital. Sometimes my table sounds smothered or rolled off in the highs, and sometimes I hear what I can best describe as noise/static/distortion on vocals when they get loud. Things have gotten a bit better with what I assume is break-in of the cartridge and some minor tweaking of VTA.

Yesterday, I purchased a well used Thorens TD 160 with an Audio Technica AT125LC. The cartridge is riding so low (I assume from use) that at times the body rubs on the record surface. I haven't had the time to do extensive direct comparisons, but the essence of what I expected from vinyl is here with the Thorens. An overall smooth, natural coherence that is emminently enjoyable to listen to. Natural, airy highs. Solid, but not overdone firm bass.

Again, I have not done direct comparisons, but I don't hear any of the downsided I heard with my Michell. There may not be quite the detail or soundstage width, but I feel like it's an overall more enjoyable listening experience.

I'd love input from the more experienced here to help me understand what's happening here.

Thanks much,
Paul
pj234
uraniumcommittee
60 posts
 
Put the same cartridge in both tables and then compare.
jaybo
4,478 posts
 
i have owned and sold several state-of-the-art tables, including a maplenoll athena, sota, a pink triange export and a goldmund studio that were no more enjoyable than a td 160 super or a td 147, or a variety of other classic inexpensive(relatively speaking) thorens tables. all those used tables floating around, and still operating is truly a marvel.
armstrod
601 posts
 
Did you hook up the Thorens without changing the settings on your phono preamp? If so, that would explain a lot. If you've been running the Benz on the MM setting, the 5mv output of the AT would be a much better match than the .8mv of the Benz. Also, having read your previous threads, did you mount and align the Benz yourself? You might want to check the alignment to make sure it's up to snuff. I'm assuming the AT was already mounted on the Thorens and, because you like what you're hearing, the alignment is probably pretty close.

The other big difference is your non-suspended Michell versus the very old school spring suspension of the Thorens. Suffice to say the tables will sound very different.

If your Michell/Benz setup is correct, you may be learning an audio lesson that I and many others have also had to learn: cost is not necessarily proportional to satisfaction.

David
dean_man
90 posts
 
I normally lurk here but can't help myself from posting on this one. I would imagine that a head to head comparison might be fun and even illuminating, so long as the same cartridge and vinyl are used for both. If it were me I'd be willing to buy a pair of cheap-but-well-regarded cartridges for the experiment.

First I think it would be necessary to confirm that both tables are set up properly.

But to your question, I think that many folks who have a vintage table dispose of it pretty early in their quest, perhaps in some cases prematurely so.

My modest TD150 with the awkward looking TP13A arm sounds mighty good, and to my ears as good or better than a handful of newer "good" turntables that I've heard. It is worthy of a good phono stage (I have a Wright which I think most would concur is in the "good" range) but I would bet a lot of folks move on with the table before they move on to a good stage. I have not compared my TD to a tecnodec and in fact my primary table is an idler now, but I can't get rid of the Thorens. Especially through the Wright it presents music in a gentle and very musical way and I love it.

Jim
pj234 OP
3 posts
 
Thanks for all of the great replies...keep them coming!

To answer some of the questions above, I'm using a Monolithic phono stage which was a distinct improvement over the built-in stage of the MF preamp I had. The input resistance sounds best to me (with Glider) at 1K and high gain setting. I changed it to 47K and medium gain for the AT/Thorens combo.

I bought the Michell used, but bought the Glider new from a dealer because I wanted it set up professionally (again being new to vinyl, I wanted the best chance of initial success so that I would give the format a fair shake.) It is placed on a sand box type isolation platform, and the Thorens is temporarily perched on an adjacent bookshelf.

I've thought about swapping the cartridges to compare, but I'm not that confident in being able to set them up properly.

How much time does it realistically take to break in a new cartridge? Is it possible I haven't given the Benz enough time (I'm guesstimating 20-40 hours total so far?)

If I were to keep the Thorens and sell the Michell, would the Glider be a good match for the table? Is it possible that a high output MM cartridge sounds better to me because of it's higher signal to noise ratio?
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