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Battle of the phone pres for my system.

I have a Yamaha GT-750 with a Hana SH mk 1. I had it running into my Musical Fidelity A1 and listened through Dynaudio Evoke 20 speakers. I have tinnitus so I listen off-axis and liked the sound. I had ordered a Decware Zrock3 and hadn't considered when I ordered it how I was going to use it. When if finally came, I realized I could only use it with my transport and DAC )and it was worth every penny.)

A friend lent me their Manley Chinook so I could see how it would work with my analog front end and the Manley/Decware combo was pretty sweet. I can't afford a Manley and after removing the Zrock3 and going head to head with the A1 didn't make me feel that I wouldn't choose it anyway. After casting about, I was all set on getting a 834 clone and putting in some nice tubes. Then I read about the Softone Model 4 and saw systems like @lalitk and @macg19 . It sounds like what I would want if I put some Mullards in it (though hopefully cheaper ones). I ran across many others who could afford a more expensive phono pre using the Softtone. 

As I was searching, the google AI wanted to help so bad that I asked it what it thought. It said the Softone would match better with my equipment and gave a bunch of reasons that were things I hadn't thought of, like gain matching and cumulative power running through the system. It seemed to think that 834 would be more problematic and too much syrup.

I told AI to make the 834 work or I would delete it from the internet, and it told me to put a 5751 (less gain because of the Hana's output coming in) in V1, then a Raytheon then a Mullard. Or something like that for gain and sound differences taking into account my tinnitus and to match my system. It seemed sound thinking, but again, stuff I hadn't considered. I didn't write it down, but it made me wonder. It congratulated me on my awesome thinking on putting together my amazing system. I closed the browser to make it forget this ever happened.

I figured I thought I would ask real people what they thought since I'd prefer empirical evidence over data surfing. The other point in favor of the Softone is that it's a real product and not an aliexpress special, though plenty of people are happy with their clones, all are one and one are all. 

Thanks.

 

letch
letch OP
120 posts
 

The Softone arrived. I'm listening initially with the provided Sovteks. It's so different from the Manley, more rhythmic, more driving, but less silky, for sure. It had a larger soundstage but sounded thinner. The Manley felt more coherent but less defined while the Model 4 rocked a little harder, which I liked it. I figured it would sound even better with other tubes. I have some to try and some to buy. 

When I'd done some AI searches, it said I should put the Musical Fidelity A1 in Direct mode (pre bypass) and set the volume knob at 10-12 o'clock and use the Zrock to set the system volume. So, I did all that and it was different. Less nervous energy and more depth. After listening a bit, I wondered about the HIGH MC setting since I have a high output MC. I listened to LA Woman on MM and then listened again with the Softone on High MC. I had to lower the volume, but it sounded great. Then I read the instructions and they have a table that shows that I should be using the MM setting with the cartridge. But why'd it sound so good?

@lalitk A friend suggested I trade in the two cartridges I have: The Hana SH and Benz ACE H and get the ML. The Hana has less than 3 hours of use. The ML looks like it would be used with the High MC setting (I'm assuming that > 100 ohms means I would choose the 100 ohm setting and accept I'm on the edge.) I do have an pair of extra speakers and some cables I want to sell as well, so that would cover that expense handily. From what I've read it sounds like a great cartridge. 

@pindac My excursion is about to make a detour!

 

pindac's avatar
pindac
3,920 posts
 

@letch This latest development from my perspective is great to be informed of.

For me it means your personal preference for a Vinyl Source's electrical influence is well understood and as I state a attraction or repulsion when end sound  is evaluated. 

Not that I know your initial thought, but I assume you are aware something that has attraction can be fettled with further to become more alluring.

It looks like with the Valve Roll Options and the MF A1 Amp having a option for adjustments increases the permutations able to be configured.

Note: In such a circumstance the individual making the changes adopts the role of being an Engineer. 

Trade Off is the outcome of Engineering, it will be keen to learn where there is change made that is recognizable for occurring, but also if the trade off is discernible.

My take on such an opportunity is to record a permutation that is quite stimulating but not the final go to selection. Use the alternative assembly when other changes occur within the Analogue Channel. The alternative can quite easily take first place as the go to option. 

In the late 80's / early 90's I was a user of a MF A1, which is not known by too many is a TDP of EAR design, produced on a Napkin for the owner of MF.

Napkins have a lot to answer for, when it comes to innovation, I always got ones in a pocket that are to become loaded with draft notes. 

As in all excursions a trek of the beaten track can create an indelible encounter.

macg19
1,364 posts
 

In case you don’t have these specs for the M4

 

Gain:
>MM 45dB
>MC High 67dB
>MC Low 72dB

The MM load resistance is 47k ohms.
The MC High load resistance is 100 ohms.
The MC Low load resistance is 25 ohms.

lalitk's avatar
lalitk
6,180 posts
 

@letch 

The JJ (stock) tubes are actually pretty darn good. I’d continue breaking in the Softone Model 4 in your system and focus on moving toward the Hana ML when finances permit.

The M4 needs time to fully settle in, and from my experience, the Hana ML is a significant step up in refinement, resolution, and musicality. With the right cartridge-phono synergy, the improvements are far more meaningful than rolling tubes too early in the process.

For now, I’d let the M4 mature, enjoy the music, and put future upgrade funds toward the Hana ML. I think that combination has the potential to deliver a very rewarding and well-balanced presentation.

pindac's avatar
pindac
3,920 posts
 

Also, if hours are wanted to be put onto a Phonostage, a reverse riaa, with an attenuator? Will allow a CDP as the source to be used with the Phonostage, this will preserve the Cart's life, but enable the Phon' to run for a long period of time with a vigilant eye on the Valves. It won't be long before the Valves will find their 'Burn In' using this method.   

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