I think that @ghdprentice and others have nailed it. It’s your tables, nothing inherent to Classical Music
Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?
Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.
A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there). The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved. However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).
Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.
The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia. Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.
Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise. My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).
I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP). It includes some Telarc tracks. This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard. There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.
So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble? Could it be from the mastering lathe?
I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.
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@mahler123
Those contributors here who think that the problem is with my tables have probably never heard the effects I am describing. There is a plausible explanation for this: their systems, including tables, are simply not resolving enough to hear what I report. Alternatively, the noise floor of their listening environments could be so high that it masks the effects. I am astounded that you ignore the special demands of classical music. I am talking about large scale works recorded in a real acoustic, not close-miked, electronically mixed, studio recordings. I asked ChatGPT if Deutsche Grammophon was having problems filling orders
If the problem was my tables, it would affect all records, not just some. |
I have many original DG pressings of classical music that I purchased new in the 70s and 80s. In those days DG was thought of as a quality company but there were characteristics of their work that I found wanting. Namely, they often tended to be shrill and glazed over especially on crescendos. One bought their LPs regardless, mainly because of the high level musicianship and worldwide reputations of the orchestras they recorded. I don't recall a noise I could characterize as "rumble", but in those days my equipment probably couldn't reproduce what RB is describing. I have not auditioned my DG LPs in a decade or more. I will break some out and have a listen. |
Completely agree that Deutsche Grammophon was highly regarded back in the day. Herbert von Karajan was fastidious about the sound of his recordings, and the Berliner Philharmoniker under his leadership developed a particularly full sound. Then DG and the orchestra went their separate ways, with the orchestra establishing its own label and usually recording in their home venue, which has been fully equipped for recording live concerts. This enterprise is branded "The Digital Concert Hall" and includes permanent remote cameras which can be pre-programmed. Outputs include webcasts, Blu-ray video productions, Pure Audio Blu-ray and SACD backed up by CDs. Other orchestras have followed, one good example being the London Symphony Orchestra with its LSO Live label routinely producing SACDs of live concerts. Decca is another recording company with famous recording quality which has become something of a bit player, where it sits as a sister company to DG in the Universal Music Group portfolio. Decca has some superb recent recordings on CD but their vinyl equivalents have been marred by unacceptable scratches caused by high-gloss, printed inner linings, at least as delivered to me by Presto. The DG recording of Mahler 2 mentioned in my original post was a live recording of a big-deal live event - the re-opening of the Sydney Opera House Concert Hall after a 3-year, A$100-m refit, done mainly to improve the venue's sound quality. The concert was broadcast live on national radio and recorded using 15 cameras for a national TV broadcast. It was also webcast. So it is disappointing that DG's Australian vinyl pressing has oversized centre holes. My first copy rivalled Decca's worst for dirt. I don't know whether DG or the Australian Broadcasting Corporation was responsible for the original recording. It may even have been the Trust, or the Sydney Symphony Orchestra! It was a special occasion for a special building, and the performance was comparable to Rattle's best. |
These are just a few of my faves; Clifford Curzon - Beethoven "Emperor" Concerto No. 5 in E flat for piano and orchestra, The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Hans Knappertsbusch, Decca Stereo 1958 Georg Solti - Beethoven Symphony No. 9 , Lorengar, Milton, Burrows, Tavela with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Chorus, Decca Silver Jubilee Recording Stereo 1972 Bruno Walter - Beethoven Symphony No. 6 in F major opus 68 Pastoral Columbia Symphony Orchestra Stereo 1958 Gyorgy Sebok, Janos Starker - Johannes Brahms Sonatas for Cello and Piano E minor opus 38 and F major opus 99, Mercury Living Presence Stereo 1964 Antal Dorati, Janos Starker - Dvorak Violoncello Concerto in B minor Opus 104 Bruch Kol Nidrei Opus 47 London Symphony Orchestra, Mercury Living Presence Stereo 1962 My equipment will out resolve any thing you’ve got and no rumble. So where do you live? In the Outback?
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