Is Sound Stage an artifact of recording?


Yesterday had the opportunity to hear a fine chamber music concert featuring musicians from the NY Philharmonic in a small modern chapel with a slightly domed wooden roof. We sat about 15-20 feet from the musicians. The all acoustic sound was excellent. The Schubert Trout piano quintet  and Brahms piano quartet in G were the program. Afterwards while de-briefing at dinner with an audiophile friend who went with me and our wives, he made the point that despite the excellent acoustics and premier seating he could not close his eyes and see a "sound stage" during the concert. I had noticed the same thing. The locations of the instruments were diffuse. You could not pinpoint the location of the violin as you might expect you could on a good recording of the same work! We agreed that this was not the first time we had noticed this about live music. So I put the question to learned assembly here on Audiogon. Is sound stage something that is invented or perhaps just an artifact of the recording process to help us get the illusion of real musicians playing in front of us. Responses from those of you who have made recordings will be particularly appreciated.

bruce19

Get Thee This DVD of Ray Bryant Montreux ’77

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324736813106

I inherited it along with all the LPs my friend left me.

I start the Video, grainy, lousy, I feared the sound would suck also.

Nope, the sound is terrific. He plays a Giant Bosendorfer

It looks longer than this in the video.

They had 4 mics just for the piano, and a separate vocal mic. 

At one point, a sound guy scampers out and changes Ray’s vocal mic, you hear the improvement.

’Those Guys Knew What They Were Doing’

I stumbled across the LP version one day

https://www.discogs.com/release/4818909-Ray-Bryant-Montreux-77

Hah, this popped up, the dude changing the vocal mic. You see the size of that soundboard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olUknJkFK-k&list=RDolUknJkFK-k&start_radio=1

The audio on the DVD is far better than that video, the power and deep bass of that piano is captured.

 

 

Great discussion, I’ve got more to say, but I am rushed at this moment, but if you have a few moments, I highly recommend you listen to this interview of William Low the founder of Audioquest. The whole thing is amazingly on point with our discussion here, and Mr. Lowe is amazingly frank to the extent of shooting himself in the foot as a manufacturer of audio cables and accessories. He does tend to drone on a little, but his statements are very information dense with lots to think about. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-occasional-podcast/id1332323668?i=1000767807570

This applies to only those who enjoy the symphony and other live acoustic events. I never grew up with that so I could care less. I want the music I grew up with to sound great. How many other generes are there where the musicians stay put the whole time? 

@ronboco 

Live recordings, like Betty Carter, she walks all over the stage, I learned not to use my remote balance for her, or other live performances.

Dianna Krall has been seated at the piano with a vocal mic left of center in her group every time I have seen her live.

I have some recordings where the main artist is centered, the other members imaged nicely, and then, when the drummer, far right, gets a solo, they ’move’ him center, then back where he belongs, same thing with other solos, ’moved’ to the center, then back to the left or far left.

Who let those engineers come to work that day?

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Another pet peeve is when they record/present a Piano full keyboard left to right, like the biggest piano in the world. Ridiculous.

Many good systems I’ve heard sound better than what I’ve experienced live in the past 10-15 years, at least rock for sure. The DSP’ed & amplified line arrays usually sound terrible ; hard, fatiguing & lack any real nuance when more than two or three are playing together & imaging is non existent! Most of the beautiful body & tone of a great electric guitar / amp combo is lost w/ these systems & while the line arrays accomplish their intended goal to create even sound throughout a venue, they do so at a high cost. What a shame.