If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It

I find it funny the callout of GR measurement methods when they have been the status quo for decades unless a full anechoic chamber is used. To top it off, the measurements of several different speakers closely match when also measured by Erin's klippel vs Danny's gated clio. Soooo, I find it interesting the ASR vs GR debate is again struck up attacking measurement methods.

Secondly, I can see in the before/after graphs there was some interference of woofer to tweeter on the original that wasn't there in the altered. Now, is there some fact behind that tweeter avoiding a lower xo; yeah probably. Can't argue that lowering the xo would put more stress and resonance on a tweeter like that. That does raise some question as to why you would put two drivers together that barely fit, like wearing a tight pair of jeans that used to fit in high school. You can squeeze, but is it the best answer?

I know Danny is pretty abrasive on some of these videos, where others are understandably pretty neutral. Seems nobody gets preferential treatment, just if a speaker actually performs or not. I think Danny is a little harsher on the larger mfg with more resources available or the real high $ speakers that should be built to a higher standard. His Wilson Duette video was pretty understood and having spoken with the guy who owns those speakers, it sounds like the upgrade was worth every penny.

I just wish speaker designers would learn to take some constructive criticism and try to view some different perspectives upon these reviews. Maybe it'll convince some to change their design and construction methods for a better finished product, benefitting the end user. Do you think F1 race engineers argue their car is the best, or do they look at every other car on the grid to understand if a different design works better? Either way, I'm tired of the ASR vs GR debate. They both debate for the same thing, better measuring likely yields better sound amd more $ doesn't guarantee better sound. They just believe in different methodology in achieving those results but the overall message is the same. I honestly wonder what would happen to the video content from Amir and Danny if the other were not around. ASR would be a pretty boring place if they didn't have someone to rip on.

And full disclosure, I'm typing this listening to my NX-Studio speakers on Rythmik subs with a huge smile on my face from how good they sound.

 

So, how 'bout them Dodgers...

@hjdca I’m sure with those changes the speakers sound different. Does it sound 10 times better to you? I can’t tell from your post if the "upgrade" was worth it to you.

@jc4659 I apologize, I was not the one that sent in my Wilson W/P 8 speakers.  I can now see that the way I wrote the post would give everyone that impression...  I wish I could change the post, but, too late now, maybe, I should just delete it ?   I just tried to articulate in the post, that as a present happy owner of the original unchanged Wilson W/P 8, I believe what GR did to those speakers did not qualify as an upgrade that should have been considered at the factory, but, it was represented as such.  In other words, the basic requirements of a tower speaker were changed and the GR update created 4 speakers instead of 2 tower speakers.

PS. Since my first post is so misleading, let me know if you think i should delete it along with this post...   Thanks for pointing out my error. 

I’ve found both ASR and GR to be useful resources.  
 

I find the cat fights pretty pointless.  Just take it for what it’s worth to you or not and move on.   Or if one really feels they got the answer keep publishing your own content to make the world a better place. ✌️

@hjdca Thanks for the clarification and sharing your opinion!

I have found that usually when somebody was banned from ASR, they were banned for a pretty good reason :-)

 

that said:

 

@xmbw4 

 

 

— “I challenge anyone to look at all of ASR’s reviews and find a single instance where he used something that would be considered real science in anything he’s ever done.”—

 

I find these critical callouts from  anonymous folks on audio forums to be amusing.

 

Amir was a senior executive overseeing codec and media technology development at Microsoft.  He  oversaw the development of successful audio and media codecs.  They employed standard scientific protocol for developing codecs - eg double blind testing.

The technologies made it into billions of devices and even received Emmy awards for their development.

 

He uses top shelf, well-known lab equipment to do many standard electronic measurements for distortion, etc.   And he evaluates the relevance of the distortion measurements with respect to known audible thresholds, well established in psychoacoustics research.

 

He evaluates loudspeakers using currently among the world‘s best measuring devices - the Klippel - one reason being is the type of measurements you need to render data relevant to all the SCIENTIFIC research cited by Floyd Toole and other such experts.  In other words, Amir is using sophisticated measurements that allow him to correlate those measurements to the best science we have in terms of predicting subjective impressions of loudspeaker behaviour.

 

So he is basically following the best current science we have.

Amir’s approach and data has got Floyd Toole’s approval (he posts

on ASR fairly often).

But for some anonymous people on the Internet…. Of course it’s not enough. ;-)